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Old 12-17-2012, 12:55 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

Assuming we are down Xavier, Butler, Dayton, Saint Louis and Massachusetts (and hopefully not Richmond), the Atlantic 10 takes a body blow but is not mortally wounded.

We still have VCU. We still have SJU, URI, Richmond and GW, programs that all had outstanding teams and somewhat national profiles within recent memory. That's a solid foundation to work with. The same can't be said for St. Bonaventure, Fordham, LaSalle and Duquesne, programs with less consistent success, if any real success at all. But, I just don't see the league gutting anyone. And, with teams heading for the exit, it can't afford to. It needs stability and, for better or for worse, just having those bodies in the conference gives some stability.

So who do we add? I nomintate the following three to get us back to twelve:

George Mason: They'll probably relish the opportunity for a do-over and join this time. Good addition.

Siena: Great fan support (a poor man's Dayton, in this regard), fills the arena in Albany. A factory for up and coming young coaches. Perhaps those coaches will hang around for longer if they get to coach in the A10.

Boston U: Good academic institution, solid program.

Alternates: Hofstra (could be the gateway to NYC that Fordham hasn't been), Davidson (I don't know, I am not as gung-ho about spreading ourselves out geographically).
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

I'm worried about the TV contracts. Was there any language regarding membership status of specific members? Xavier, Butler, SLU, Dayton?

If so, does it void the contracts entirely? Or does it make the contracts open to modification or re-negotiation?
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

Hawkamaniac - no to Boston U - we don't need America East also-rans. Also, Davidson is north of Charlotte and are no more of a stretch geographically than St. Louis and UNC-Charlotte were.

Deleo77 - I'd avoid any "partnering" with any FBS schools at this point.

Wolf - Regarding Stony Brook - my general disdain of the SUNY D1 schools biases my opinion, but again, we can't just take schools to take schools. No America East school is deserving of an invite to the Atlantic 10.

If VCU stays (I was just assuming they'd be bolting) then we have SBU, SJU, URI, VCU, GW, DUQ, LAS, FU, UR - I'd entertain GMU simply because they are a fit when you consider VCU, GW, and URI still being in the conference. And I'd stop at 10. One reason to stop at 10 and get an 18 game H/H schedule is that this particular crop of schools isn't going to have the easiest time filling out a non-conference OOC schedule unless we pimp ourselves out to BCS schools for paychecks. Which may not be the worst idea, but only needing 10 or 11 non-conference games to me, from SBU standpoint, is appealing.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:32 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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Hawkamaniac - no to Boston U - we don't need America East also-rans. Also, Davidson is north of Charlotte and are no more of a stretch geographically than St. Louis and UNC-Charlotte were.

Deleo77 - I'd avoid any "partnering" with any FBS schools at this point.

Wolf - Regarding Stony Brook - my general disdain of the SUNY D1 schools biases my opinion, but again, we can't just take schools to take schools. No America East school is deserving of an invite to the Atlantic 10.

If VCU stays (I was just assuming they'd be bolting) then we have SBU, SJU, URI, VCU, GW, DUQ, LAS, FU, UR - I'd entertain GMU simply because they are a fit when you consider VCU, GW, and URI still being in the conference. And I'd stop at 10. One reason to stop at 10 and get an 18 game H/H schedule is that this particular crop of schools isn't going to have the easiest time filling out a non-conference OOC schedule unless we pimp ourselves out to BCS schools for paychecks. Which may not be the worst idea, but only needing 10 or 11 non-conference games to me, from SBU standpoint, is appealing.
I could be sold on Davidson. I am just thinking the wide geographic spread of the current A10 hasn't helped us out too much. It's a big part of the reason why attendence at the conference tournament is always so paltry.

I prefer twelve members but you make some points about possible benefits of a ten member conference. Also, it might make more feasible an Atlantic 10-Missouri Valley challenge. Ten teams versus ten teams (though the MVC would have to find a #10 to replace Creighton).
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

Guys, Davidson has basketball tradition and is an 'Institutional Fit' with most of the A10 schools. Charlotte is a US Air Hub. Easy in and out.

In a lot of ways, the A10 should have added Davidson rather than UNCC years ago.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:46 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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Wolf - Regarding Stony Brook - my general disdain of the SUNY D1 schools biases my opinion, but again, we can't just take schools to take schools. No America East school is deserving of an invite to the Atlantic 10.

If VCU stays (I was just assuming they'd be bolting) then we have SBU, SJU, URI, VCU, GW, DUQ, LAS, FU, UR - I'd entertain GMU simply because they are a fit when you consider VCU, GW, and URI still being in the conference. And I'd stop at 10. One reason to stop at 10 and get an 18 game H/H schedule is that this particular crop of schools isn't going to have the easiest time filling out a non-conference OOC schedule unless we pimp ourselves out to BCS schools for paychecks. Which may not be the worst idea, but only needing 10 or 11 non-conference games to me, from SBU standpoint, is appealing.
I like a smaller conference...it gives better opportunity to build the rivalries and be selective in who we add. I was just trying to throw out as many names as possible because that's apparently how to be a journalist.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:03 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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I like a smaller conference...it gives better opportunity to build the rivalries and be selective in who we add. I was just trying to throw out as many names as possible because that's apparently how to be a journalist.
Oh.. you're probably already more credible than most journalists.

The only problem with this conference is that it's not very good. I think VCU has higher aspirations than the 10 schools, whether #10 is GMU or Davidson - doesn't matter. Other than them, Richmond and St. Joe's are the highest profile names. If we have an unbiased, honest discussion about DUQ, FU, GW, LAS, URI, SBU let's face it - we aren't exactly pillars of BB success. I'm afraid we are auto-bid status with VCU having their way with us if they stay.

So if VCU leaves (highly possible, even probable I'd say) then we have 8 with no additions. I'd think GMU is out of the picture with no VCU. Now you're looking at Davidson +1 where that +1 is at best going to be SBU/DUQ caliber, maybe a Siena. The question for any of the remaining schools now is, is it better to be in auto-bid conference or seek out a multi-bid conference considering we are all in a 3-4 bid conference right now. I could see Richmond looking for an out.

So many "what if" scenarios here. That's why in my original response to the thread I pointed out the thought that I could see all of us headed elsewhere and the A-10 being kaput.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:17 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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Oh.. you're probably already more credible than most journalists.

The only problem with this conference is that it's not very good. I think VCU has higher aspirations than the 10 schools, whether #10 is GMU or Davidson - doesn't matter. Other than them, Richmond and St. Joe's are the highest profile names. If we have an unbiased, honest discussion about DUQ, FU, GW, LAS, URI, SBU let's face it - we aren't exactly pillars of BB success. I'm afraid we are auto-bid status with VCU having their way with us if they stay.

So if VCU leaves (highly possible, even probable I'd say) then we have 8 with no additions. I'd think GMU is out of the picture with no VCU. Now you're looking at Davidson +1 where that +1 is at best going to be SBU/DUQ caliber, maybe a Siena. The question for any of the remaining schools now is, is it better to be in auto-bid conference or seek out a multi-bid conference considering we are all in a 3-4 bid conference right now. I could see Richmond looking for an out.

So many "what if" scenarios here. That's why in my original response to the thread I pointed out the thought that I could see all of us headed elsewhere and the A-10 being kaput.
Having everyone go elsewhere (to lesser conferences) and have the conference go 'kaput' is not a valid option.

Frankly, any administration or fanbase that thinks with a "Shit, Xavier's leaving so I don't get my TV and NCAA Unit money from Xavier so we should just shut the league down" mentality should have been voted out of the league a long time ago.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:43 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

There is no way that whatever happens in this round of realignment is somehow good for any team that is left in the A10. The A10 will be a truly midmajor basketball conference (12-18th instead of 5-8th best) and VCU and Richmond (and probably St. Joes) will be looking to get out as quick as they can. Once they leave the A10 will be done.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:47 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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Having everyone go elsewhere (to lesser conferences) and have the conference go 'kaput' is not a valid option.
Moliva, I wish you were right, but I don't believe you are. After the current round of defections happens, we are the lesser conference. So I think when you look at the teams that we project being around, I could see remaining conference members being in the same scenario that some current members are, and that is looking elsewhere for a better place to play. I think Richmond would be one of the first to look for a better conference. I'd be disappointed in SBU if the administration didn't at least try to see if something better was out there. We are in a conference right now where a top 3 finish virtually guarantees you an NCAA bid. That's all gone if Butler, Xavier, and VCU are out of the mix.

So, if even one school opts to leave for greener pastures it open the door to more defections from this A-10 2.0 if you will. So then it begs the question - do you go for A-10 3.0 which becomes some A-10/MAAC/AmericaEast hybrid or just shut it down?

All hypothetical. And like I said I hope you are correct that an A-10 of some strength can be kept around. It will probably hinge on VCU staying. If they go and we assume all of the other defections are guaranteed, then I think we're in trouble. And of course, a lot of this can change if one or both of Dayton and St. Louis remain in the league if BE7 only becomes BE10. In that case, we'd probably have VCU as well, since I've yet to see a report that has X, Butler, and VCU being the only 3 to go. And UMass hasn't left. At least not yet. So who knows.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:56 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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Wolf - Regarding Stony Brook - my general disdain of the SUNY D1 schools biases my opinion, but again, we can't just take schools to take schools. No America East school is deserving of an invite to the Atlantic 10.
Disdain aside, Stony Brook's been pumping money into athletics. $25 million basketball arena about to open; a new athletics performance center.

Two AmEast regular season men's basketball titles. (In all sports, Stony Brook's won 27 AmEast titles in the last five years). They just got a lot of pub from their baseball team making the College World Series.

They'd be a solid addition because they're spending money to compete (as is Quinnipiac). Not to mention that because they are on Long Island, they're way more likely to get publicity in one of the four major papers (Newsday) than all the other NYC schools not named St. John's.

I'd think Stony Brook would be a solid acquisition.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:52 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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There is no way that whatever happens in this round of realignment is somehow good for any team that is left in the A10. The A10 will be a truly midmajor basketball conference (12-18th instead of 5-8th best) and VCU and Richmond (and probably St. Joes) will be looking to get out as quick as they can. Once they leave the A10 will be done.
I would agree with the first part, but not the second part. It hurts, but it's not the apocalypse.

Assuming VCU and Richmond are still around, 12-18th? Really? After the BCS Six and new Catholic, who's the "mid-majors"

WCC - added BYU, Pacific
MWC - Utah, BYU, San Diego St, Boise St, TCU replaced with Nevada, Fresno, Utah St, and San Jose St.
C-USA - Houston, SMU, UCF, Tulane and ECU replaced by La Tech, Texas State, FIU, FAU, MTSU, North Texas, Charlotte, UTSA. If that was a fair trade, they also LOST MEMPHIS.
MVC - Might lose Creighton.

We'd be competitive with those four conferences. That's 8th-12th.

Who else is there?
The Horizon - Lost Butler.
The CAA - Lost VCU and Old Dominion (and George State) And we'll probably take George Mason.
The MAC - hasn't gotten an at-large bid since 1999.
The Sun Belt - Losing their only two Top 100 RPI teams (MTSU, Denver, FAU, FIU, UNT, )
Atlantic Sun - Lost Belmont.
Summitt - Lost Oral Roberts
MAAC - Lost Loyola MD
WAC - Everyone left it. That's the Great West now.

The big six conferences and the WCC got better with realignment. Everyone else (but the MAC and Big West) got worse.

Where's VCU, Richmond and Saint Joseph's going to go if they don't get invited to the BE7? The WCC and MVC aren't adding Philly and Virginia schools. C-USA and MWC are FBS conferences.

Here's the at-large bids from teams without football, and not in the new catholic league/WCC/MVC since 1996:

Atlantic 10 (18)
St. Joe's (2008, 2004, 2003, 2001), Dayton (2009, 2004, 2000), GW (2006, 1999, 1998, 1996), Richmond (2010, 2004),
Rhody (1998, 1997), UMass (1998, 1997), Bona (2000).

Everyone else (3)
George Mason 2011, 2006
Iona 2012

George Mason joins us and we compete with the WCC and MVC for "second best FCS conference"

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Old 12-17-2012, 05:27 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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...There also wouldn't be any guarantee that it would last for more than a couple of years because UConn and Cinci would leave as soon as they are asked. But maybe they will never be asked. ...
I agree completely except that I don't think anyone will ever ask for Cinci to join their conference. Seriously. Would you?
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:32 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

They're just trying to ride Louisville's coattails into the ACC. They just have to wait for another ACC team to make another move.

It's pretty sad for what used to be a stable conference.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:34 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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George Mason joins us and we compete with the WCC and MVC for "second best FCS conference"
I can live with that. We would still be a Top 10 conference most years.
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