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Old 12-18-2012, 08:05 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

The A10 is about to become a 1-2 bid league. We should be concentrating on schools that can increase our chances for NCAA units, and treat the size of their market as a secondary consideration.

It's all rolling down hill and we need to take from "lesser" conferences just as the BE7 is about to do to us. VCU and St. Joe's (and Dayton if they remain) emerge as our top programs by recognition. There is enough pull there that we can poach, not with 100% success, but enough to get some quality.

We also are fortunate in that our current Commish and staff have proven to be more forward thinking than anyone we've had for the past 25 years, imo.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:35 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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There is no way that whatever happens in this round of realignment is somehow good for any team that is left in the A10. The A10 will be a truly midmajor basketball conference (12-18th instead of 5-8th best) and VCU and Richmond (and probably St. Joes) will be looking to get out as quick as they can. Once they leave the A10 will be done.
No kidding. So your telling me the A10 is worse off? Wow. Thanks.

This is a good thread. At this point any school that could get out of the A10 right now will. I wish them luck. (Except Butler and VCU - why would you wish someone you did not know luck). Reality is a mid major 1-2 bid league. How do we create the best mid majore league we can.

Hawks will be in the A10 when all is said and done. Richmond or VCU will be in the A10 when all is said and done. So the A10 starts adding. I like what may have wrote here. So the assumption is a 12 team league a size which I like a lot. Assume X, Dayton, Saint Louis, Richmond or VCU, UMass and Butler are gone. So we need to add 4? Davidson - YES. George Mason - YES. Need 2 more. I would like the Boston Market so Boston U.? Maybe Charleston to match with Davidson.

NO DREXEL. NO DELAWARE. NO NO NO.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:55 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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So we need to add 4? Davidson - YES. George Mason - YES. Need 2 more. I would like the Boston Market so Boston U.? Maybe Charleston to match with Davidson.

NO DREXEL. NO DELAWARE. NO NO NO.
What about Murray State...I know they have football, but am not sure of their aspirations...

Also, there is WKU, but we know they have major football aspirations, could they enter the A10 like a Temple/Mac arrangement?
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:01 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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What about Murray State...I know they have football, but am not sure of their aspirations...
Murray State has a nice basketball pedigree but they have nothing in common with the existing A10 institutions besides basketball .... AND they are nearly impossible to get to. Google Map Murray, KY and you'll see what i'm saying.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:06 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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Murray State has a nice basketball pedigree but they have nothing in common with the existing A10 institutions besides basketball .... AND they are nearly impossible to get to. Google Map Murray, KY and you'll see what i'm saying.
Ha. They are farther from a major airport than Bonas.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:13 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

Way outside the box: Northern Kentucky University just moved up to D-1. I think they are in the Atlantic Sun, and I don't remember the facts exactly, but I believe it was thought they would be a natural for the OVC(? - could be something else), but they weren't invited for fear they would come in and outspend everyone. (Again, this may all be an incorrect recollection.) Anyway, it's right across the river from Cincinnati, they have a very nice, brand new arena that holds somewhere in the neighborhood of 9000 to 10000, and their program was a DII power for years. I expect they will become pretty good pretty quickly.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:16 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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Murray State has a nice basketball pedigree but they have nothing in common with the existing A10 institutions besides basketball .... AND they are nearly impossible to get to. Google Map Murray, KY and you'll see what i'm saying.
I've been through Murray. Definitely a small town that is a few hours from Nashville. But they are still in the top 50 all time in wins. Look at WKU and it even becomes more apparent that these are two great and sustainable programs. And they love their basketball in that state.

Really, what does Richmond or St. Joe's have in common with URI and VCU?
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:53 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

Sorry, if it were up to me I'd start from scratch and look bigger. Time to form the best of the rest. Surprisingly it appears Gonzaga and St. Marys are in play, keeping that in mind... I'd call up the ADs of the best A10 schools left out and form a coalition. Let's say it's St. Joes, Duquesne, VCU, St. Louis, Rhode Island (obviously substitute whoever is left out).

Then I'd approach some of Gonzaga, Creighton, Saint Marys, George Mason, Wichita State, possibly others from each from WCC or MVC. Presto, national super league for basketball only.
We'd be just behind the new BE7. If it's to much for the WCC then just add Mason and lift the best of the MVC.

If we have to, park our other sports in whatever conference will take them.

Could be hope for the A10 schools not included they might be needed to maintain an auto-bid (what's the rule 7 teams that have played together for 7 years) or roll the dice as there will be a fair amount of at larges in the early years. Or deviously, we could call on Umass, (and maybe even Temple depending on Big East fallout) to do us a favor for a year or two, to exclude taking too many of the other schools. Or for that matter if we worked quickly enough we could form the league before 2015 and having the outgoing schools like Xavier and Dayton give us the continuity needed for the auto-bid.

--By the way, everybody on the bubble and likely out in the new league, should hold their Presidents and ADs accountable. The bloc idea should have been privately discussed by all the A10 powers for leverage and bargaining ability when the inevitable happened and the BE7 disintegrated. I thought our schools would be proactive and plan for this day and hold some sway, doing something like that. Instead most of us are left flat footed and forced to suck up to schools like DePaulful and Villanova.

When the idea for a cabal was suggested only two things could have occurred Xavier could have said "No thanks" and that's the end of that, or they could have gotten on board. In that case, a new league could have been formed without anchors Providence and Seton Hall, and the top of the A10 could have maintained rivalries and strength and formed a better league then is being formed now. I fault admins at SLU, UR, Dayton, St. Joes for not doing this five years ago. Butler and VCU too new to be members, but likely would have been allowed in the club this year.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:57 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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If we have to, park our other sports in whatever conference will take them.
The NCAA does not allow for that. Football, yes, but not for any other sport. The only exception is if a school has a sport for which its league does not. Think UMass in lacrosse, for example.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:09 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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Way outside the box: Northern Kentucky University just moved up to D-1. I think they are in the Atlantic Sun, and I don't remember the facts exactly, but I believe it was thought they would be a natural for the OVC(? - could be something else), but they weren't invited for fear they would come in and outspend everyone. (Again, this may all be an incorrect recollection.) Anyway, it's right across the river from Cincinnati, they have a very nice, brand new arena that holds somewhere in the neighborhood of 9000 to 10000, and their program was a DII power for years. I expect they will become pretty good pretty quickly.
Plus they had Malcolm Eleby, and his magical inability to bring the ball up the court and keep dribbling.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:27 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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Really, what does Richmond or St. Joe's have in common with URI and VCU?
Basketball and Interstate 95.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:22 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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Sorry, if it were up to me I'd start from scratch and look bigger.
I posed this exact thought in another thread and it was roundly ignored.

There is nothing that keeps 7 of the remaining members of the A10 from separating aligning with various BB centric schools from the rest of the mid majors. AQ status maintained and some of the real dead weight is gone.

But this is the "realists" thread, and I can't see it happening. Bernie's job is to uphold everyone's interests so she will not lead that bandwagon. Those school presidents/AD's/coaches would all have to lead. I don't think there is enough initiative amongst them.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:22 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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The NCAA does not allow for that. Football, yes, but not for any other sport. The only exception is if a school has a sport for which its league does not. Think UMass in lacrosse, for example.
I think that's (surprisingly) not true.

I've heard that Providence plays volleyball in the Am East and not the Big East despite both conferences competing in that sport.

I remember being shocked when I heard that no NCAA rule exists, it's just that very few if any conferences will let schools do things like that -- for example, Saint Louis men's socccer didn't like joining the A-10, but it's not like SLU was in a position to negotiate since the MVC wasn't inviting them, C-USA encouraged them to leave and it was A-10 or bust.

Schools need conferences for non-revenue sports way more than conferences need schools for non-revenue sports.

I don't think anything would prevent Gonzaga from putting MBB/WBB only in the BE7. Except the WCC would boot their other sports. Not because there's a rule against having their other sports, but on the general principle of "Screw you guys, without your nationally recognized basketball programs, what do we care about your other teams for?

They'd have to place most their other sports into the hybrid conferences that exist when not enough teams per conference sponsor a sport (think of hockey conferences back east). Sports like men's volleyball, swimming, water polo, softball, etc, have those conferences like the "Mountain Pacific Sports Federation."

Their volleyball team would be screwed. They could possibly land in the Big Sky. But their baseball team would be homeless.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:36 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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I posed this exact thought in another thread and it was roundly ignored.

There is nothing that keeps 7 of the remaining members of the A10 from separating aligning with various BB centric schools from the rest of the mid majors. AQ status maintained and some of the real dead weight is gone.

But this is the "realists" thread, and I can't see it happening. Bernie's job is to uphold everyone's interests so she will not lead that bandwagon. Those school presidents/AD's/coaches would all have to lead. I don't think there is enough initiative amongst them.
I think it could break either way. As someone who follows GW, I can say that the school is currently trying to focus on athletics and put more resources into their program. I would have to imagine the same would hold true for some, but not all, of the remaining A-10 schools. So, if some of the A-10 schools decide to scale down after these departures, other schools may look to find whatever situation will keep their programs relevant. I'm not sure the remaining schools would have any real binding loyalty to each other. It would just come down to what options exist to move on. It's hard to tell at this point because there are still some moving parts. But if there aren't any good options the path of least resistance would be to add a few schools to the remaining A-10, and I think GMU, Boston U, Davidson, and Sienna would top that list.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:15 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Re: Proposed A10 Thread for "Realists"

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I posed this exact thought in another thread and it was roundly ignored.

There is nothing that keeps 7 of the remaining members of the A10 from separating aligning with various BB centric schools from the rest of the mid majors. AQ status maintained and some of the real dead weight is gone.
It was ignored because kicking members out of the A-10 is not an option. One of the reasons you mention is the need for 7 schools to remain that have been there 5 years in order to keep the auto-bid. The 2nd reason is that the A-10 can't legally afford to kick members out. However, if a bloc of them left (you might have been getting at this) a la the WAC split some years back, it would be possible. They'd no longer have the A-10 name.

Out of curiosity who would you keep? I think you'd be making a mistake to not include Duquesne or Bona. Look what Bona has demonstrated they can do when they don't have a**holes ruining a program. I think LaSalle's got potential, but honestly taking just results - I'd leave Fordham and LaSalle behind. And I like both schools - it would be a "business decision".
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