TheCobra

You can set your watch to a UD meltdown, that is for sure. But, I don't think most of us make "excuses" about the meltdowns as much as we just hope for better.

But, for accuracy's sake, let's look at what you have written above.

In 2012, you've explained the conference "oops" by referencing a non-conference game. Did you know Buffalo wasn't in our league? The "excuse" here would be home losses to Duquesne and Rhode Island. That'll do it. But, the team did it to themselves. We were 9-7.

In 2011, we just weren't a very good team. We had a freshman PG who was not good for team chemistry. That is not an "excuse," its just commenting on the team. We recruited the freshman PG. It was our own fault that we needed a frosh PG to play 30 minutes a game. We were 7-9.

In 2010, we were preseason number 1, and dropped the ball. We had a lot of seniors, and the team never put it together until it was way too late. This was the year Lowery "punched" Holloway at the end of an A10 tournament game. Terrible freaking year. This team underachieved. We were 8-8.

In 2009, we went 11-5, and won a ton of close games. We went to the tournament and won a game. No meltdown here.

2008 is probably the best example of what you are talking about. We were 8-8. We started 14-1 with wins over Louisville and Pitt, then had a terrible conference season. We lost Chris Wright after 10 games and Charles Little for a big chunk of conference play. We were not the same team in conference as we were in the nonconference. But it didn't excuse the total meltdown that season became. This is, legitimately, a season you could say UD fans made excuses about, myself included. It was the "what could have been" season. But every team has these types of seasons. You don't think UC fans lament the year they lost Kenyon Martin right before the NCAA tourney. It happens, fans bitch about it. It doesn't make it an "excuse" or mean UD fans are always making excuses.

No excuses. UD has underachieved its entire time in the A10. No matter the reason, I want that to change.

Chetburger

Dayton will not make the 2013 NCAA tourney. They will have to finish in the Top-5 in the league which means something like an 11-5/10-6 record at worst. Not happening. Dayton has one true road win thus far -- Alabama. We get 8 road games alone in the A10 and most of those will be losses. UD needs to be in the 13-2 non-con realm to have enough of a cushion to even make a plausible NCAA run based on the A10. The two 1-pt losses at home to Ill St and Weber effectively cost Dayton two victories they will not make up for in the A10. To make up for them, UD would have to win at Xavier or VCU and some other profile road win.

Never happening. Based on the talent on the team, if they make the NITs, Miller should be a candidate for conference coach of the year. This is a team with significant holes and too many newcomers. Dillard is the only All Conference type talent on the entire roster. Lets not pretend we thought this was an NCAA team from the beginning however. Earning any postseason was considered the goal. We get to the NIT and we've overachieved.

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Head Coach Chester Chetburger, A10 Forum Hoops Touring Practice Squad

"Shaving points for cash since 1997."

TheCobra

Chetburger, they have only PLAYED one true road game. The road hasn't been the problem in recent years. That was more of an OP-era problem. Obviously, its harder to win on the road for everyone, but UD hasn't been particularly bad in this area recently.

Last season UD was 3-5 on the road in conference play. The problem was their 6-2 home record included losses to Duquesne and Rhode Island. We won @Temple.

In 2011, UD was also 3-5 on the road in conference play, 4-5 if you include an opening round A10 tourney victory over UMass.

In 2010, UD was 2-6 on the road.

In 2009, UD was 3-5 on the road.

In 2008, UD was 3-5 on the road.

So, in 4 of the last 5 years, UD has gone 3-5 on the road in league play. Obviously, that is not great, but its hardly crippling. Pair that with a 7-1 home record and you have put together a good league season. 10-6 is only one game better than they did last season.

The idea that 13-2 in the nonconference is necessary to make the tourney is another relic of a bygone UD era. This is one of the best leagues in the country. 11-3 will be just fine if we can finish in the top 4 in the league. We have had many great nonleague seasons and still missed the tourney. We know better than anyone that its all about league performance.

This team more than any in recent memory is polarizing to UD fans. Some people are really high on them, and others are really low on them. Its weird. To me, we have a lot of talent, plenty enough to contend in the A10.

xavierhoops

I actually have a B.S. and MBA, so I don't believe my education is lacking.

Cobra- I'm not sure what you want me to explain, and I'm not refusing to do so. I didn't even remember it was you who originally made the "palpable pressure" comment. I don't have the time or desire to go back and find the original post, but in the context of the thread and post, it appeared that you were suggesting or insinuating that the "palpable" pressure and anxiety was unique only to UD Arena, and that is why the UD Flyers struggle so mightily at home.

But I see now you were simply stating that there is "palpable" pressure and anxiety at many arenas across the country and that it isn't UD Arena specific. Yet, only the UD Flyers succumb to that pressure and anxiety from their home crowd.

Mind-boggling, indeed.

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Chris Mack in 3 years at Xavier has had twice the NCAA wins (4) of the entire Dayton coaching staff in the modern era of NCAA basketball (2).

TheCobra

Mind-boggling that you just said, "Yet, only the UD Flyers succumb to that pressure and anxiety from their home crowd."

Really?? Did you see any of the New York Jets this year? After they won 7-6 at home against Arizona in the "butt fumble" game, where Greg McElroy had to replace Mark Sanchez, all of NY sports talk radio talked about how lucky they were that they were going on the road to Jacksonville for the next game. The pressure for Mark Sanchez at MetLife stadium would just be relentless.

If you want to continue to act like this isn't a real thing, that is entirely your prerogative.

And yes, I was insinuating that there is a certain pressure at UD arena. And I stand by that. It is different than other places simply because it is a different place with different people inside of it. It is related to the pressure that would ahve been created at MetLife stadium for Mark Sanchez, but not the same. Jets fans will boo. They will be relentless. UD fans won't be so merciless, but that doesn't mean players can't sense their displeasure. So yes, I am saying UD arena's pressure is unique to UD arena. Just as the "pressure" created at a UD @ XU game for XU is "unique" to XU. We live in a nuanced world, but perhaps a Xavier MBA doesn't teach this.

xavierhoops

Who said I got my MBA at X?

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Chris Mack in 3 years at Xavier has had twice the NCAA wins (4) of the entire Dayton coaching staff in the modern era of NCAA basketball (2).

TheCobra

Nobody did. That was an attempt at what I call an "insult." It wouldn't have worked as well if I said a "UC MBA" and you didn't specify, so I took a little poetic license.

xavierhoops

I've been to non-Xavier games at UD Arena. Great atmosphere, great crowd. I just would never suggest there is some sort of unique, palpable pressure and anxiety at the great UD Arena that isn't at dozens of other arenas throughout the country.

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Chris Mack in 3 years at Xavier has had twice the NCAA wins (4) of the entire Dayton coaching staff in the modern era of NCAA basketball (2).

TheCobra

OK, you still aren't understanding me. I am saying that there is pressure and anxiety at basically every college in the country, especially schools who have fans that really show up. You don't think if Kansas is in a close game down the stretch at Allen Fieldhouse they feel a little extra pressure not to disappoint the fans/lose a game they are "supposed to" win?

I believe that they do. Not just at UD arena, but Kansas, Xavier, Duke, and lots of places. I am not saying they don't possess a home court advantage, or that UD doesn't have a home court advantage overall. If you do not subscribe to this theory, that is fine. But please stop saying that I've created this thing that applies to UD and exists in UD arena but no where else. I am not saying that.

z8-Minutemen

Sorry, but I have to interject on the conversation here... I'm just trying to comprehend Cobra's logic. What Cobra is saying that UD Arena puts pressure on the players of UD, which in turn could effect their play negatively? That sure doesn't sound like a home court advantage to me, I guess you shouldn't be so proud of UD arena then... Oh wait now you're arguing that it is still a home court advantage, then what could this whole argument be? What point are you trying to make? Ohhh I figured it out, it's another excuse, and a very lame one at that. You should join the triumvirate. I know many of you here think I'm a lunatic, but c'mon, look at this guy.. I normally don't comment on these sorts of threads (ie. UD-X pillow fights), but this one was too dumb to resist commenting on...

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Dallas Cowboys- 5 super bowls and counting...

UMass Minutemen- 8 tournament appearances, 1 final four. Alumni: Julius 'Dr. J' Erving, Marcus Camby

Northeastern Huskies- 7 tournament appearances. Alumni: Reggie Lewis, Jose Juan 'JJ' Barea

Flyer75

For z8 and XH, I think it's simpler then what Cobra is making it out to be. Fact is, and it's true in most sports, I've heard interviews from players saying things like, "we succombed to the pressure of playing at home to win." I remember that from the Cubs meltdown with one to win with two home games to make the WS. The Reds lost 3 straight at home after taking the first 2 on the road themselves. In fact, it happened in just about every baseball playoff series this year. Is that the reason? Possibly.


The simple answer to all this is, a team tends to play looser when they aren't "supposed to win". An anomaly in sports? Yes. Hard to explain? Yes. Does it happen? Yes. Is it an excuse? Possibly.

For the record, I'm not saying this is a true argument every time you lose at home. But to say it hasn't happened is pretty naive.

FlyingElvis

I think UD is good enough to be in and out of NCAA Tournament conversations for the rest of the year, but not good enough to be "in" those conversations consistantly. I think we are too weak in the middle right now. Benson is just too soft in there. Kavanaugh is gone. Gavrilovic has been uninspiring so far. I really like Jalen Robinson, but he plays like a frosh, and would really need him to mature in the 2nd half of the season. Devon Scott has not gotten much playing time recently. I wonder what is going on there because he is atheltic and quick with some hops and physical strength. He has looked very unrefined so far though.

We need two of those big men to catch fire to be a sure NCAA team, IMO. I love the guard and wing talent that we have.

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"US Bank Arena can't be that bad"

TheCobra

Thank you z8. Now that you disagree, I know I am on the right track.

Thank you Flyer75, you have explained what I'm thinking of better than I did. And I am not saying this is the case always or in every game - it was just one observation after the Weber State game. The only reason its still being discussed is because Xavierhoops and some of the other XU posters are continually poking fun at the comment and painting it as an "excuse" (as Z8 has here). Its not something I believe to be all that significant. It just seems that way because I am forced to defend it at every turn (which I guess I just shouldn't do).

Apparently, any idea articulated by a UD fan for why a game was won or lost is an "excuse." I'm not blaming anyone but UD themselves. If I said, "they lost because they shot 9/19 from the foul line," would that be an "excuse"? A "reason," sure, but not an "excuse."

xavierhoops

I would buy your first statement and don't really have any disagreement with it.

It's the argument that it's a unique, certain palpable pressure and anxiety that is so customized (for the lack of a better word) to UD Arena. I think your original post was trying to rationalize or partly explain the Weber St and I think Illinois St losses at home. If there's pressure and anxiety felt by a team from the home crowd, it's experienced essentially everywhere major college basketball is played... not just at UD Arena. I was just confused why you would partially attribute UD's bad home losses to that- when every team experiences it.

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Chris Mack in 3 years at Xavier has had twice the NCAA wins (4) of the entire Dayton coaching staff in the modern era of NCAA basketball (2).