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Old 12-29-2012, 07:22 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

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Originally Posted by UMass87 View Post
duq81 is right. Sad to say but FCS football will soon get about as much attention as DII or DIII.
Attention from who? ESPN? ESPN doesn't care much about A10 basketball.

As for alums, local media and community, you're absolutely wrong.

Why was Umass outdrawn by a number of FCS teams this year? Heck, historcally, Delaware has a bigger fanbase for football than Temple does.

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Old 12-29-2012, 07:28 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

depends on the part of the country you are in. FCS football is a niche but has a strong following
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:41 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

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The Iona guys are still busy trying to figure out how Pelle is going to get eligible when everyone in the world knew that there was no way in hell that was going to happen and that he would never step foot on that campus.

As a Fordham fan I have no problem being in a basketball conference with Iona, hell I say add in Manhattan good local rivalries for us. I would rather see us join the MAAC as opposed to going to the PL.
Iona and Manhattan will not be invited into the "New A-10." And Fordham is not moving to the PL. Will never happen. The first two teams invited if there is a "New A-10" will be Davidson and George Mason.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:16 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

Discussion of FCS Football a little off topic always brought up by one poster who needs to explain away our dismal basketball performance by attacking our storied football program and its relative success (pure envy and fear).

Back to the original intent of the thread. As further evidenced by yet another bad loss (25 points to an unranked Georgia Tech), it is clear that we can't compete at this level of Division 1 Basketball. Maybe some of my fellow Forfham fans are right, stay where we are or go to D3. No reason to believe that we could compete in the PL or MAAC at this point.

Too many fanatics believe if we pour money in basketball, new arena, or the mystical savings from football (which is mainly scholarships and not actual operating income) we would be another Xavier or Butler. Well that is like catching lightning in a bottle.

Fordham's leadership has its focus on building our academic reputation (as we close in on the top 50) and infra structure development. Those are our priorities. We have already found the correct level of play for football, and eventually (after the basketball fans are appeased for a while longer) basketball will follow.

I am sure this post will generate another tirade against Fordham football by cartain poster. A10 fans, I suspect that wouldn't be the case if the basketball program wasn't. In such terrible shape.

Bottom line Forfham Basketball. Is an embarrassment to the university, conference, students and alumni. It is a shame and we need to find a way to stop losing, even if we have to eat our pride and accept a different level of competition.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:55 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

Ok, so FCS football has a loyal niche following; and Fordham's realitvely competitive in that.

At the end of the day, CBS is handing out $1.5 million per NCAA bid/win every year. What's the FCS Champion get? A ring the school has to pay for themselves, no TV money, and probably a ticket commitment to the final game that guarantees a loss (unless you happen to have 4,000 fans living near Frisco, Texas).

I know there's some conferences that set parameters on which sports to emphasize, and fully fund. It's baffling to me that Fordham could be chasing FCS football glory with a budget greater than it's men's basketball budget (I know that football has higher operating costs; and you don't just spend to say you spent it, you have to spend WELL, but still).
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:03 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

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Originally Posted by jpschmack View Post
Ok, so FCS football has a loyal niche following; and Fordham's realitvely competitive in that.

At the end of the day, CBS is handing out $1.5 million per NCAA bid/win every year. What's the FCS Champion get? A ring the school has to pay for themselves, no TV money, and probably a ticket commitment to the final game that guarantees a loss (unless you happen to have 4,000 fans living near Frisco, Texas).

I know there's some conferences that set parameters on which sports to emphasize, and fully fund. It's baffling to me that Fordham could be chasing FCS football glory with a budget greater than it's men's basketball budget (I know that football has higher operating costs; and you don't just spend to say you spent it, you have to spend WELL, but still).
Since this has migrated to a FCS football discussion let me explain a few things about Fordham Football that may not be known to those not associated with the school. But first regarding our budget, most of that money is scholarship accounting, that money would not be available for basketball (or any other use for that matter).

Here is the real impact of the program on the school:

1) Some our most well-to-do alumni, who actually donate to the school, are either football alums or fans. Some will argue that they are "a dwindling number who remember football at a different level," although true, their families are also very in tune with the football legacy and continue to fund endowments based on the program's legacy and own peronal connections.

2) Fordham participates in FCS football not because it will gives us the same national exposure as it once did, but because it is in our DNA, and our heritage. We are the only Fordham program that could ever claim to be a national power, playing at the highest level. In fact in all of NYC's history - co college program (even St. John's) captured the imagination of New York like Lombardi and the Blocks.

3) But it is more than just about the past for Fordham Football, it is about the present. The determination of our student athletes, who experienced some lean years in the Patriot League, and didn't whine about facilities, or coaches, or the fact it was IAA, go out there NOW and hopefully forever, with determination and pride.

A program that currently yielded NFL players (including a draft pick) and two Championships in the last ten years. A program that looks to hit new strides when we continue to face FBS opponents,, and if our showing against Cincinnati is any indication, more to look forward to.

Why do we play FCS football, face the refrains of "who cares," why? Because for one of the most storied programs in football history ... Pride Still Matters. Some of our other sports should take note.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:38 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

JP,

The schools expenses are paid for by the NCAA and there is no ticket guarantee that I'm aware of. The schools do receive TV money from ESPN. The exact amount I could not find

This years championship game, a rematch of last years title, is a sellout. I'm pretty sure they'll be 12k Bison fans from North Dakota at the game and another 5k stumbling around Frisco.

Had it been Richmond and Lehigh, two small, private schools, the game would not be sold out. Even so, I would still expect a crowd of 12-15k. When Richmond and Montana played in Chattanooga in 2008 the attendance was 17,823.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:00 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

ram ram,

While Fordham is headed in the right direction for the immediate future in football I'm not sure how long they can keep it up. I'm a Lehigh fan and the Hawks are 22-2 all time against Fordham and truthfully, I don't expect the dominance to really end. The Hawks have the stadium/facilities, excellent support from the administration, the Eagles and a tradition of winning.

Fordham's facilities still lag behind everyone in the PL in except Georgetown. Granted, relative to Rose Hill Gym, JCF is a respectable place. By simply adding a 3k seat away "bleacher" JCF could be an ideal FCS stadium in a great setting. Other smaller, behind the scenes things need to be addressed at Fordham from what I gather as well.

With the above said, I do expect Fordham to be able to challenge for titles and playoff births every few years like they have over the previous decade. They will not, however, be a consistent threat until the admistration picks up their game and certain things get spruced up.

BTW, Fordham's PL football brethren, Lehigh and Lafayette, will be playing their 150th game at Yankee Stadium in 2014. That's not irrelevant....

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Old 12-30-2012, 05:06 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

ramram.. I see you ignore posts that try to debate you - here in the debate capitol of the world as the FU commercial says. Please stop using Lombardi as a basis of your argument. How many alums are even alive when he was a member of the 7 blocks? If you want to focus on the school and Lombardi, then find the administrators that refused to hire him as a head coach. Oh wait, they are all dead too. Your rants (because thats what they are - an argument would need two sides, open discussion and FACTS) are becoming more than annoying and very predictable.

If you want to say things like this.. "Bottom line Forfham Basketball. Is an embarrassment to the university, conference, students and alumni. It is a shame and we need to find a way to stop losing, even if we have to eat our pride and accept a different level of competition." Keep it in house. Debate with those who are involved and care. Not here - it's not the place.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:30 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ram ram View Post
Since this has migrated to a FCS football discussion let me explain a few things about Fordham Football that may not be known to those not associated with the school. But first regarding our budget, most of that money is scholarship accounting, that money would not be available for basketball (or any other use for that matter).

Here is the real impact of the program on the school:

1) Some our most well-to-do alumni, who actually donate to the school, are either football alums or fans. Some will argue that they are "a dwindling number who remember football at a different level," although true, their families are also very in tune with the football legacy and continue to fund endowments based on the program's legacy and own peronal connections.

2) Fordham participates in FCS football not because it will gives us the same national exposure as it once did, but because it is in our DNA, and our heritage. We are the only Fordham program that could ever claim to be a national power, playing at the highest level. In fact in all of NYC's history - co college program (even St. John's) captured the imagination of New York like Lombardi and the Blocks.

3) But it is more than just about the past for Fordham Football, it is about the present. The determination of our student athletes, who experienced some lean years in the Patriot League, and didn't whine about facilities, or coaches, or the fact it was IAA, go out there NOW and hopefully forever, with determination and pride.

A program that currently yielded NFL players (including a draft pick) and two Championships in the last ten years. A program that looks to hit new strides when we continue to face FBS opponents,, and if our showing against Cincinnati is any indication, more to look forward to.

Why do we play FCS football, face the refrains of "who cares," why? Because for one of the most storied programs in football history ... Pride Still Matters. Some of our other sports should take note.
ramram, since you are from Iona, why are you spending all this time trashing our basketball program. Go back to the Iona Message Board and get a life. Your effort to lobby for Iona to get into the "New A-10" has failed.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:00 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

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Sorry for mischaracterizing you, BU Hoops. At the risk of moving off topic, I have a couple of questions for you regarding Boston U (my wife's alma mater). I haven't followed closely the upcoming move to the Patriot League, but what was behind that move? And, if given an opportunity to move up to a more competitive conference, what are your thoughts on BU's ability to increase its competitiveness accordingly, and perhaps "bring" the Boston market?
No problem Bona84 - just didn't want to get lumped in with obnoxious Butler fans...

Boston U had wanted to be invited into the A10 ever since Agganis Arena opened in 2007. They would schedule 4-5 OOC games with A10 schools each year to show competitiveness. First they got passed over by St Louis and Charlotte (I had read that BU was the third choice). OK. So they continued to schedule A10 teams. Two more openings - it went to Butler and VCU. It became clear that the A10 was not going to invite them, so they took the best choice they had (BU did not want the CAA). Now that the A10 may change again, not sure what is on BU's mind. As an alum, I would obviously push for the A10, but the PL is getting better and I feel it is on par with the CAA and MAAC.

Boston U has a lot to offer the A10 - beautiful on campus 7500 seat facility, Boston market (not the chicken joint...,large in-city student body,and great academics. Most would say their attendance sucks for BB, but BU is a front runner school and games against Albany, Hartford and UNH just doesn't excite the fan base. Just look at hockey - average 5K-6K fans per game, why? national ranking, plays in the best conference (Hockey East),etc. Boston U has the potential to do the same in Bball. Key word being POTENTIAL - all the ingredients are there to be in the top tier of the A10 every year.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:34 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

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Since this has migrated to a FCS football discussion let me explain a few things about Fordham Football that may not be known to those not associated with the school.
I get all that, and that's pretty positive... But you're in the wrong league for that.

"F-U Football" means something different to the rest of us.

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JP,

The schools expenses are paid for by the NCAA and there is no ticket guarantee that I'm aware of. The schools do receive TV money from ESPN. The exact amount I could not find
Ok, so it's not like FBS Bowl football. I still fail to see how chasing a couple hundred thou for a FCS finals appearance is a better investment than $1.5 mil for participation in MBB.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:18 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

studies show football gets more alumni on campus for longer periods of time than any other sport. Great time to rekindle those good feelings.
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:05 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

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studies show football gets more alumni on campus for longer periods of time than any other sport. Great time to rekindle those good feelings.
Who wasted their money conducting those studies? Football games are longer (3 hours instead of 2) and football stadiums are bigger.

Oh, but there's 2-3 times more basketball games.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:23 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Re: Fordham & the A10 - question

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ramram, since you are from Iona, why are you spending all this time trashing our basketball program. Go back to the Iona Message Board and get a life. Your effort to lobby for Iona to get into the "New A-10" has failed.
Good post. Since he is committed to living in Fordham's athletic past to justify the present then why not upgrade our oldest program: baseball which, I believe, has won more games than any other college program and has produced over 50 MLB players and has been around since 1860?
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