jjw23

Ram Ram and other Fordham Basketball Fans/Supporters, If the University is putting very little priority into trying to develop a new basketball/sporting arena, why don't you guys all group up and try to do something. I'm not saying for everyone to donate large sums of money but instead unite under one and write letters to the University, go to meetings, anything etc. Maybe someone can start a new website about the idea of a new facility? I've checked out the Fordham Basketball board before and it seems to have a pretty good following there. The fans are passionate about their team and that is excellent considering they have not had that much success in their time in the A-10. It might be wishful thinking (I hope that you guys do get a new arena somewhat soon) but I think its really up to the Fordham Fans to make this happen at this point, as it doesn't seem like the University is to focused on this. Instead of complaining about the situation try to make a difference and make the change.

baskets

You can be assured there are people working behind the scenes to get a new arena built at Rose Hill. And just a heads-up - ram ram is an Iona troll.

baskets

I like it.

xudash

On that note, follow the Marquette model. They put up a very nice center on campus and otherwise play down the street in Milwaukee's NBA arena.

It truly is a shame Fordham did not have more progressive leadership at least 10 years ago. Fordham, with a commitment and with some success, would have been a no-brainer for most realignment scenarios.

All the heavy moving is taking place now. Perhaps Fordham can catch up at some point, but it has definitely put itself in a tenuous position.

Always La Salle

Why is there So much "Arena Envy" on this and othe boards?
How big are the on campus arenas at Georgetown, Providence, DePaul, seton Hall, all big East schools. Check them out and where they play home games.

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Quinn

Very sad indeed. That's the same gym I played basketball in when I was in 7th grade. I'm not in my late 30's. Sad.

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ramMan

Typically, yes, but Fr. McShane has said there will only be a two-year "silent" period prior to the next major public campaign. If we reach the current capital campaign's goal of $500 million by the end of this fiscal year (as of mid-December we've raised $461.2 million), the next campaign should start in 2015-16.

BTW, Fordham launched its ongoing $500 million capital campaign in April 2009. Reaching our goal in just four years in the midst of the worst economy since the Great Depression is an extraordinary achievement.


Yep, Trump transferred to Wharton after his sophomore year. He played football during his time at Fordham and has in the recent past donated to the football program, but nothing major ($1,000 a year).

xudash

It has nothing to do with arena envy. It has everything to do with how well a program is positioned for success. In today's game, facilities matter a great deal if sustainable success - defined primarily as consistent and often deep NCAA participation - is the goal.

The on-campus arenas of the C7 don't matter, as long as they can put up strong attendance numbers in the facilities they use, be they NBA arenas or public facilities like the Dunk.

ace93

In one paragraph you mention facilities and in another you mention attendance. I think the former are more important for the program, while the latter is more important for TV and revenue purposes.

The team will play on the off-campus arena at most twice a week, but will use the on-campus facilities on most other days (unless they are traveling). I've seen St. Joe's get knocked on this forum b/c their upgrade to what is now Hagan Arena did not provide enough seats, but if their facilities were improved to the point of being attractive to recruits I think that matters more than if they skimped on facilities just to expand the size of the arena.

Obviously you want both, but I see facilities being more important than arena size.

xudash

When it comes to developing a program "out of the ashes", if you will, I agree with you.

You know my preference on this topic: that every program affiliated with Xavier would have a facility on par with the Cintas Center and near capacity attendance figures to go with it.

My earlier comments actually had a specific focus on the C7, knowing that their on-campus venues are lacking and that they depend upon off-campus NBA or civic arenas. With that being the case, they absolutely have to sustain some reasonable attendance figures to pay for their arena rents.

I also agree with your point re Hagan Arena - as written. The problem with Hagan - not with me, but with many of the St. Joe's posters, based on their comments on their board about facilities - is that they ended up thinking a little too small for what they should have configured. I understand Hagan to be a nice place and their support/team facilities to be reasonably top notch. Yet it seems there is way too much "high school gym" reaction to the arena component. In a world where a group of schools are going for the best hoops-centric league in the nation, regardless of the Villanova effect, you shouldn't put yourself in a position of having spent $15mm on facilities, only to come up short with what is perceived to be a minimum capacity figure.

BTW, none of this has absolutely anything to do with being located in a pro sports town or not, because your collegiate program either has it or it doesn't; no excuses are necessary or appropriate where fan support is lacking. It essentially took Xavier two decades to go from Schmidt to the Cincinnati Gardens to the Cintas Center. It got there through sustained commitment and success, which attracted a fan following that now places it in the 39th overall attendance position in the sport.

You do WANT both. And facilities are more important than arena size for a program that is attempting to turn the corner and grow. BUT in order to make the cut long-term, a certain facilities solution will have to be available to the program, and the fan support has to be there to validate the program.

ace93

Good point about Hagan. I am not sure how much more it would have cost to upgrade to 6k capacity, but you are right that if you are going to spend $15mm, it might be wise to not leave yourself in a spot where you are still coming up short. I also don't know how feasible it was to expand it any further. I know that at Fordham it has been determined by architects that the RHG cannot be expanded. Age, foundation and the architecture used does not allow for expansion. When we do upgrade, and I did say "when", it will have to be something new.

Rumors around our board is that for a 6.5k arena with the proper facilities and amenities, we'd have to spend close to $100-120mm. I suspect that is partially due to NYC costs b/c Towson U. down the road from me is building a new 5.2k facility for $68mm.

What would be your capacity minimum for a new on-campus facility?

ramMan

Good question. I did a little research and here's what I've found (see below).


Georgetown
McDonough Memorial Gymnasium
Opened: 1951
Capacity: 2,500

Seton Hall
Walsh Gymnasium
Opened: 1939
Capacity: 2,600

Providence
Alumni Hall
Opened: 1955
Capacity: 2,620

DePaul
Sullivan Athletic Center
Opened: 2000
Capacity: 3,000

Marquette
Al McGuire Center
Opened: 2004
Capacity: 4,000

St. John's
Carnesecca Arena
Opened: 1961
Capacity: 5,602

Villanova
The Pavilion
Opened: 1986
Capacity: 6,500


FYI, St. John's doesn't play all its home games at Madison Square Garden. This season, the Johnnies play only eight of their 18 home matchups there. The rest of their home games are played on campus at Carnesecca Arena. The games they schedule at the Garden are typically against either local schools whose fan bases help fill up the arena (Fordham, Rutgers, Seton Hall, etc.) or marquee opponents (Notre Dame, UConn, Pitt, etc.). Interesting to see how many games they'll schedule at the expensive (to rent) Garden after they leave the Big East. Probably less games than now.

paulxu

I have no idea how many of their conference games are played in those very small, on campus (?) facilities...but I would think not many. But I wonder if that's not a hidden factor in the C7 split. Without Syracuse, Pitt and eventually UConn on the schedule, maybe some of those schools recognized they wouldn't be able to keep the big rent-a-box places paid for when SMU comes to town.

Not sure if the conference additions will either, but that's a lot of schools needing to find some 10,000 size locations I would think.

__________________
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ace93

Quick search for a few told me the following on how much they play on campus:
St. John's - 10 (thanks ramMan)
Georgetown - 0
Seton Hall - 1
Providence - 0
DePaul - 1
Marquette - 0
Villanova - 13

xudash

I may think a little differently than some here, especially those of you on the eastern seaboard who do live the pro town stuff 24 by 7. Nonetheless, if your school's name isn't spelled D-U-K-E, then getting above 10k is a solid number. It's a "we don't fart around number" when you have capacity like that while filling the place up.

On the one hand, you're probably making sufficient cash flow to manage a successful program on a sustainable basis. On the other, except for Dayton, you're achieving at a very high level to keep the fans coming.

10k. Then make it happen.