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Old 02-18-2013, 09:29 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

ODU's football is a higher priority than their basketball at the moment. They will go to Conference USA and then hope to someday end up with the likes of Temple, Cincinnati, et al.

Not sure who the 12th would be in that case. College of Charleston? Siena? Cleveland State? Boston University?

I'm quite worried. I think it's at best a 50/50 proposition for an invite for my school.

Really really wish Butler and Xavier would have hung tough and stayed. In the end, ABBA got it right.

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Old 02-18-2013, 09:46 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

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Originally Posted by bprichard View Post
I think Creighton genuinely is out due to geography. The C7+additions will be making good money, but it's not exactly football money. The additional travel to Omaha will cut into the funds that can be funneled into basketball, and the members of the new conference are desperate to remain relevant in basketball. Any money that is being spent on non-priority sports is undesirable.

On the other hand, I don't know what the marginal travel costs for traveling to Omaha as opposed to Dayton or Saint Louis would be, but it probably adds up. Add in the fact that the Omaha market is smaller than Saint Louis and the same as Dayton and that there are no guarantees that they'll be ranked anytime soon once McDermott leaves, Creighton doesn't seem like a great option.

/wishful thinker, wants Dayton to be included
Think in terms of looking at it from an Income Statement point-of-view, because you're only focusing on revenue. IF the current rumors about $30mm (10) / $40mm (12) are close to reality, then that's more money per B7+++(++) school than exists now. Basketball schools don't have football school expenses, but they do have Olympic Sports travel expenses as we all know. But Georgetown's golf team already travels to Chicago, etc. (I assume that's a good example). Airfare math is all over the board. It isn't necessarily true that a flight to Omaha will be more expensive than a flight to Cincinnati, because, especially in Cincinnati's case, CVG is a hub airport for Delta, and gate competition is low (i.e. it's cheaper to fly into Dayton or Columbus than it is to fly into Cincinnati - well, Northern Kentucky).

I don't believe the other B7 Presidents besides Gtown's President are that passive, especially given the money/brand awareness opportunities involved. I can't see this thing at 14, especially not right out of the gate; it would be dilutive, unless it involved Gonzaga and a true national footprint. With all due respect to Sienna, I just can't see the B7 going for that brand at this point. This isn't about taking in brands that can be built up, it's about taking in brands that can provide immediate value to the new conference.

On that note, IMO, the pecking order remains as it has been for a while now:

B7
Xavier and Butler
----------------------
St. Louis - major market, new market, investments in the program, holding to raiding only one conference.
- or -
Creighton - all the above reasons, except for having to raid the Valley.

That's if it holds at 10.

IF it goes to 12, based on it ultimately going there as a result of Fox wanting it to go there for content purposes for its winter programming needs, then:

B7
Xavier and Butler
----------------------
St. Louis and Creighton or Dayton to the West.
Richmond to balance the East.

Dayton only makes it if the B7 are sensitive to not raiding another conference other than the A10. That could become a determining factor, but Dayton's program hasn't distinguished itself, especially as compared to SLU or Creighton. In other words, given Dayton's lack of standing nationally, the B7 may feel the better way to go would be to attack the Valley to get the precise line-up they want, absent UD's ability to deliver on brand appeal.

Last edited by xudash; 02-18-2013 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:00 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

The C7 couldn't care less about raiding one more conference. Creighton is almost certainly in - the geography problem isn't as bad as people make it out to be - certainly less of a problem than SLU in the A10.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:05 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

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The C7 couldn't care less about raiding one more conference. Creighton is almost certainly in - the geography problem isn't as bad as people make it out to be - certainly less of a problem than SLU in the A10.
I agree with you completely. With respect to travel expenses, that was precisely my point about airfare being more determined by airport than pure mileage in many cases.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:14 AM   #80 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

Muddy, I disagree with your complete disapproval of Creighton. An invite to the Blue Jays is absolutely worthy of discussion.

I know for a fact that the Hoyas fly charter. (My friend is a manager for the team and they flew in to Lunkin Airport in Cincinnati for the Bearcats game this past Friday). I assume that other C7 schools fly charter.

Regardless, according to a quick Google search, a flight from DC to Omaha is around 2.5 hours. A flight from DC to Cincinnati is about 1.5 hours. I doubt that is a serious issue, considering the C7 already fly to USF in Tampa, which is a 2 hour flight. Oh the humanity! They'll have to be on a plane for another 30 minutes.

If the C7 can truck their non-revenue sports to places like USF, Louisville, and Marquette, they can certainly afford sending them to Creighton. Besides, divisions could be created for non-revenue sports to ease the burden of travel.

To disregard Creighton is foolish.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:18 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

Creighton is a long way away, and Dayton is a redundant market. Oh, the suspense is killing me.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:21 AM   #82 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

Probably easier to get to Omaha then Olean.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:26 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

Perhaps. Depends on where you're coming from.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:47 AM   #84 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

Creighton is in downtown Omaha about ten minutes from the airport. SBU is in Olean about 1.5 hours from the airport in Buffalo. Olean is "easier to get to" from east coast cities like Boston, NY and Philly but it's still a long bus ride no matter where you are coming from.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:07 AM   #85 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BmoreX View Post
Muddy, I disagree with your complete disapproval of Creighton. An invite to the Blue Jays is absolutely worthy of discussion
...
To disregard Creighton is foolish.
Mistake #1 is thinking it's worth your time debating with this hot air bag waste of the human race. You do realize (I hope) that he has no rational reason for not including Creighton - it's simply to prop up Dayton as the frontrunner for the 12th or 14th spot in the C7+N.

"Muddy Waters" .. Ruining fellow A-10 brethren's opinion of Dayton since 1995. If not sooner.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:08 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

It's interesting when you look at the current BE standings. Beyond G'town and Marquette, they are:

Villanova - 9th
St. John's - 10th
Providence - 11th
Depaul - 13th
Seton Hall - 14th

The C7 is probably bringing up Butler and Xavier in their TV negotiations more than they are any of these five schools. I am no fan of Butler and X, but I would say the two together carry more weight that G'town and Marquette right now. It's close but I would give it to them. But still, it is the C7 that is driving the process. If Temple had stayed in the A10 the balance would be even more in the A10's favor.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:15 AM   #87 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

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Originally Posted by Deleo View Post
It's interesting when you look at the current BE standings. Beyond G'town and Marquette, they are:

Villanova - 9th
St. John's - 10th
Providence - 11th
Depaul - 13th
Seton Hall - 14th

The C7 is probably bringing up Butler and Xavier in their TV negotiations more than they are any of these five schools. I am no fan of Butler and X, but I would say the two together carry more weight that G'town and Marquette right now. It's close but I would give it to them. But still, it is the C7 that is driving the process. If Temple had stayed in the A10 the balance would be even more in the A10's favor.
If this thing actually ends up being put together and the money comes in from Fox as projected, then this whole thing will have proven to be one of the world's greatest timing plays:

Realignment + Fox need to create primary sports platform = bonanza (relatively speaking) for some private, hoops-centric schools which would not have otherwise been so fortunate.

Then it will be up to this new league to sustain success, if given the chance.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:23 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

Deleo - no debate that the bottom five of the C7 have been struggling but you, like others, conveniently forget that all of those teams have been top 25 in the past decade. Xavier and Butler will join the C7 and I'm sure they are a big selling point in any negotiations but the C7 is not the group of "weak" schools that some want to make it out to be. Over the past ten years all of those schools have been better than UMass, URI, SBU, La Salle, Duquesne, Fordham, and GW. Teams leaving the A10 for the C7 wil be doing so for a league that will be stronger than the A10 ever has been. The teams that have struggled the most, DePaul and Providence, will always be stronger than the bottom of the A10.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:28 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

Assuming X can be the Ohio market inlet, St Louis the Missouri market, Butler the Indiana one, I think Creighton has at least a shot to provide another state. I would think the final say may well come from the TV people rather than the schools themselves.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:37 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bprichard View Post
I think Creighton genuinely is out due to geography. The C7+additions will be making good money, but it's not exactly football money. The additional travel to Omaha will cut into the funds that can be funneled into basketball, and the members of the new conference are desperate to remain relevant in basketball. Any money that is being spent on non-priority sports is undesirable.

On the other hand, I don't know what the marginal travel costs for traveling to Omaha as opposed to Dayton or Saint Louis would be, but it probably adds up. Add in the fact that the Omaha market is smaller than Saint Louis and the same as Dayton and that there are no guarantees that they'll be ranked anytime soon once McDermott leaves, Creighton doesn't seem like a great option.

/wishful thinker, wants Dayton to be included
Other then being located further east what exactly puts UD ahead of Creighton?
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