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Old 02-18-2013, 11:44 AM   #91 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

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Originally Posted by Deleo View Post
It's interesting when you look at the current BE standings. Beyond G'town and Marquette, they are:

Villanova - 9th
St. John's - 10th
Providence - 11th
Depaul - 13th
Seton Hall - 14th

The C7 is probably bringing up Butler and Xavier in their TV negotiations more than they are any of these five schools. I am no fan of Butler and X, but I would say the two together carry more weight that G'town and Marquette right now. It's close but I would give it to them. But still, it is the C7 that is driving the process. If Temple had stayed in the A10 the balance would be even more in the A10's favor.
Been saying this for awhile, and I totally agree. The A-10 schools could have been driving the bus on this from day one if 8 or 9 teams in the league (X, Butler, Dayton, Richmond, VCU, St. Louis, GW and St. Joe's, for example) had made a pact to start their own league and poach G-town, Marquette and Villanova or something similar for a 12-team conference.

The problem, I assume, is that no one in the A-10 wanted to kick the other 6 or 7 teams out of the league or abandon them to start a new one, while the C7 teams had a perfect opportunity to separate from their existing league.

Ironically, the A-10 is going to be badly diluted anyway and not in the way our teams probably would have chosen in an ideal scenario. Yes, St. John's, Depaul, Providence and Seton Hall have nice histories, but for the most part those are ancient histories at this point.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:08 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

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The problem, I assume, is that no one in the A-10 wanted to kick the other 6 or 7 teams out of the league or abandon them to start a new one, while the C7 teams had a perfect opportunity to separate from their existing league.
I, for one, am glad. I wouldn't have had the heart to kick out the Spiders. It's a good program.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:14 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

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"The problem is that no one in the A-10 wanted to kick the other 6 or 7 teams out of the league or abandon them ..."

Game, set, and match.


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Old 02-18-2013, 12:18 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

Ancient histories??? UR was ranked #23 in 2010 and was ranked for a total of three weeks. Prior to that it was ranked for one week at #20 in 1986. St. John's was #15 in 2011 and ranked for four weeks. It was ranked for four weeks in 2001 and six weeks in 2000. DePaul was ranked #21 in 2001. Providence was ranked for nine weeks getting as high as #12 in 2004. Seton Hall got up to #24 last year.

You guys need to be realistic. Sure, UR had a brief foray into the top 25 but you are seriously fooling yourself about the C7 schools.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:40 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

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Ancient histories??? UR was ranked #23 in 2010 and was ranked for a total of three weeks. Prior to that it was ranked for one week at #20 in 1986. St. John's was #15 in 2011 and ranked for four weeks. It was ranked for four weeks in 2001 and six weeks in 2000. DePaul was ranked #21 in 2001. Providence was ranked for nine weeks getting as high as #12 in 2004. Seton Hall got up to #24 last year.

You guys need to be realistic. Sure, UR had a brief foray into the top 25 but you are seriously fooling yourself about the C7 schools.
Easy there, cowboy. I wasn't suggesting that UR has an impeccable history – in fact I mentioned nothing about our history at all. I was just pointing out that those four C7 schools I named really have done nothing in recent history. Recent to me is the past 9-10 years. Your examples pretty much prove my point– a blip on the radar here and there, but nothing more.

My point was that it's sort of ridiculous and disappointing for the fate of the A-10 to be tied in large part to a new league in which more than half the founding teams basically have been irrelevant for the past decade.
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:47 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

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Muddy, I disagree with your complete disapproval of Creighton. An invite to the Blue Jays is absolutely worthy of discussion.

I know for a fact that the Hoyas fly charter. (My friend is a manager for the team and they flew in to Lunkin Airport in Cincinnati for the Bearcats game this past Friday). I assume that other C7 schools fly charter.

Regardless, according to a quick Google search, a flight from DC to Omaha is around 2.5 hours. A flight from DC to Cincinnati is about 1.5 hours. I doubt that is a serious issue, considering the C7 already fly to USF in Tampa, which is a 2 hour flight. Oh the humanity! They'll have to be on a plane for another 30 minutes.

If the C7 can truck their non-revenue sports to places like USF, Louisville, and Marquette, they can certainly afford sending them to Creighton. Besides, divisions could be created for non-revenue sports to ease the burden of travel.

To disregard Creighton is foolish.
It doesn't surprise me that G'town's basketball team flies charter into Lunken. It would surprise me if their soccer team or diving team or whatever other non revenue sports were flying charter into Lunkin. Men's basketball wise, the distance likely doesn't matter, however in soccer, volleyball or whatever else, where teams fly coach, the bus from one school to another it becomes an issue. You can fly your soccer team into Dayton for a thursday game, then make a quick trip over to Indy or cincy for a weekend game before flying home. Omaha is 6 - 7 hours away from St Louis.

Went to Seton Hall's volleyball schedule this year, they played at UConn & SJU the same weekend, at Nova & Gtown the same weekend, at Cincy and Louisville the same weekend, at Pitt & Syracuse the same weekend. It looks like few Big East teams play soccer, but their women's team played Syracuse & St John's the same weekend and at Notre Dame & Depaul on the same weekend. Women's basketball appeared to play a schedule similar to Men's basketball (ie you might play in Cincy on a wednesday and @ UConn on a saturday, no travel partners).

So from that perspective, Creighton has no logical travel partner for things like soccer, volleyball, etc.. so distance in non revenue sports is a factor. It may not be huge, depending on how many sports Creighton offers. Which is another factor, not all scholls participate in all sports. If they're making distictions b/w two similarly situated basketball programs, the decider could be what school has the better overall athletic program (I have no idea where Creighton or most any other school involved in the conversation sits in that regard, but I do believe its a small factor in the final anaylsis that few give thought to)

They might be used to trucking their non revenue sports to USF and Lousville and all over, and perhaps that has made them wiser that doing so is a pain in the butt. if they can find reasonable travel partners, it makes the process much, much easier.

I agree, to disregard Creighton is foolish, however to ignore that distance may play a facor in the final analysis is equally foolish.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:32 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

I think reconciling the fact that Creighton was mediocre before Doug McDermott got there and they'll be mediocre again after he leaves is as big a factor against Creighton as the geography is.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:43 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

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Shaka Smart is smart enough to see the writing on the wall and I expect that he will accept one of the $1,000,000 per year offers from a 'Big 7' school after this season ends.

Apparently you don't keep up on Coaches salaries. Smart, Mack and Stevens have already turned down 2 to 3 times as much.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:46 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

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I think reconciling the fact that Creighton was mediocre before Doug McDermott got there and they'll be mediocre again after he leaves is as big a factor against Creighton as the geography is.
I'm sick of hearing about Creighton. Not just here, but in college basketball discussion everywhere. They are the most overrated team out there. They lose multiple games in their own so-so conference. They'll then receive a grossly high seed in the NCAA tournament and promptly bow out in the 1st round. Creighton's got a nice program, better than mediocre, but how thev've been elevated to "elite" mid-major is beyond me. They're just not THAT good.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:04 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

John Feinstein
Catholic 7 schools, including Georgetown, charting a new yet familiar path

Now it appears that the Catholic 7 may launch as early as next season as a two-division, 12-team league with a TV contract that will probably be comparable to what the former Big East schools would have made if they had accepted ESPN’s offer.

In the next few months, the league will formally decide what schools it will invite to join, no doubt after first learning which ones will accept their invitation. It must also resolve two issues with its former conference: who gets to keep the Big East name and who might play their conference tournament at Madison Square Garden. The smart money is on the remaining Big East teams hanging on for dear life to the conference name and MSG preferring the new league, which will have a number of glamour teams, to be its March tenant going forward.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...b_story_1.html
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:06 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

Medford, why are you under the impression that few Big East teams play soccer? Did you mean women's? I have not looked at them, but I know the men have a 14 team conference w/ all C7 participating.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:39 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

Tampa, Fl is twice as far from its closest BE conference partner than Omaha is from St. Louis.
Somehow I don't think distance will be the deciding factor for Creighton.
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:49 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

Big East added Florida schools so they could have inroads into football recruiting, no other reason. That's out the window with this new league. Omaha doesn't offer a similarly fertile basketball recruiting ground for most of the C7 schools.

Also, wasn't the ever-expanding geographical footprint part of the issue?

Will see how it all plays out.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:42 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

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I'm sick of hearing about Creighton. Not just here, but in college basketball discussion everywhere. They are the most overrated team out there. They lose multiple games in their own so-so conference. They'll then receive a grossly high seed in the NCAA tournament and promptly bow out in the 1st round. Creighton's got a nice program, better than mediocre, but how thev've been elevated to "elite" mid-major is beyond me. They're just not THAT good.
They just won a first round game last year. And the MVC is right behind the MW and A 10 in best non BCS conferences.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:45 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Re: C-7 to be 12 to 14 teams?

eight legger - I wasn't attacking UR (and you should note that I didn't include UR among the underachievers in a previous post) but, rather, attacking the idea that the bottom of the C7 isn't good. Asserting that the bottom of the C7 isn't good is an indefensible point - they are better than all but the top of the A10. Many here don't want to acknowledge it but reality is reality. The bottom of the C7 is on par with UR, UD and SJU.
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