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Old 04-13-2017, 06:26 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: OT: Reopening the Mess at UNC

The latest in the drama in NC over the bathroom bill. Republicans are now threatening to pull UNC and NC State out of the ACC.

http://wncn.com/2017/04/11/bill-woul...ycotted-again/
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:51 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: OT: Reopening the Mess at UNC

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The latest in the drama in NC over the bathroom bill. Republicans are now threatening to pull UNC and NC State out of the ACC.

http://wncn.com/2017/04/11/bill-woul...ycotted-again/

It would be amazing if the next massive realignment shift in the future of college athletics, where the Big XII raided the ACC, was because of a really dumb, unenforceable, unnecceasry neo-conservative piece of legislation that affects like, no actual people.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:13 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: OT: Reopening the Mess at UNC

OMG, wouldnt that be something if those idiots actually pulled UNC and NC St out of the conference. It wont happen but its amazing that its even being discussed.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:16 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: OT: Reopening the Mess at UNC

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OMG, wouldnt that be something if those idiots actually pulled UNC and NC St out of the conference. It wont happen but its amazing that its even being discussed.


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Old 04-13-2017, 02:07 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: OT: Reopening the Mess at UNC

What was that about "keeping government out of our lives"? Only when it fits your narrative, eh? EYOMFBH.
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:33 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: OT: Reopening the Mess at UNC

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The latest in the drama in NC over the bathroom bill. Republicans are now threatening to pull UNC and NC State out of the ACC.

http://wncn.com/2017/04/11/bill-woul...ycotted-again/
The best is the story popping up on the bottom of my page was "Man loses 4 toes to wood chipper." Welcome to NC everyone!
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:47 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: OT: Reopening the Mess at UNC

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I don't think think the death penalty is an appropriate penalty regardless of the crime committed by an NCAA school. By the time the investigation has been launched and the punishment has been handed out you aren't even punishing the perpetrators anymore. Sure maybe the coaches, but at the end of the day they still get paid while players who weren't around when the scandal occurred get punished.
You're not wrong.

But at the same time, I don't think the death penalty is used enough.

Back during the SMU scandal era, you know what the NCAA hit programs with all the time? A TV BAN Then the NCAA lost the court case and TV rights left the NCAA and went to the schools/conferences, creating this mess.

You know what the Penn State head coach said when they got hit with the Lack of Institution Control? "As long as we can play games, and play on TV, we'll be fine."

And Penn State was more than fine. They went 10-2 and were ranked 10th in the AP Poll the year of their bowl ban! If Ohio State actually got the death penalty for their cars/tattoo scandal (instead of, basically, NOTHING) it would actually be the best & worst thing to ever happen to the MAC. Because when An OSU restarted football, they'd simply take the MAC All-Conference team via transfer.


When Baylor got hit for trying to scapegoat a player that was murdered, they weren't allowed to play non-conference games. That's a great penalty. You really want a penalty that DOES SOMETHING: You break the rules, you don't get to play at home (or neutral site). That helps everyone else who stays within the rules.


I think the NCAA is totally gunshy about the death penalty because of what happened with SMU. They sucked for 30 years after the death penalty. But you know what? They sucked for 30 years BEFORE they started cheating.


When SMU got the death penalty:
- Upon their return, Cowboys Stadium and the Cotton Bowl didn't want to book SMU games because the ticket demand was so tiny. SMU had to play in their on-campus stadiumthey hadn't used since 1948.

- The Southwest Conference was beginning the breakup process and SMU ended up with no where to go but the WAC.

- TV was controlled by the NCAA in the early 1980s. I could show my work, but I won't. Each of the 136 FBS schools got between $70,000 and $220,000 in TV revenue. By the time the WAC signed its first TV deal with SMU they were getting $750,000 per school, the Big Ten was getting $5 million each.


The death penalty didn't kill SMU. SMU got left behind. But look at Rice. Rice sucked for 30 years before SMU cheated, sucked while SMU cheated, sucked for 30 years after SMU came back from the death penalty, got left behind in realignment/TV revenue and are largely irrelevant.

The death penalty didn't have anything to do with it
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:58 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: OT: Reopening the Mess at UNC

I could care less if they use the death penalty or whatever penalty.
It would just be nice if someone held UNC accountable for over a decade of what has been labelled the worst academic fraud in NCAA history.
Something. Anything that has a little hurt for cheating the system so bad.
And not penalize Cleveland State.
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Old 04-13-2017, 06:01 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: OT: Reopening the Mess at UNC

I mostly agree with you on this jpschmack but even if SMU got left out of Big 12 party it isn't impossible to imagine they could have played their way back into the the P5 like TCU did.

Overall my take hasn't really changed that much:

SMU was largely made an example of in an environment where they weren't extreme outliers, it really was the wild west in the southwest conference back during that time period. Judging by things like what recently went on at Ole Miss (formally) or the car collection thing of various bama players on the USC forum (informally) it is the cost of doing business as a major college program. UNC will probably lose a few scholarships for women's basketball maybe a couple in football and get a bowl ban for a year. At the end of the day, the NCAA is made up of schools, and schools have seen that resurrecting the death penalty is something that could potentially kill or at least cripple their athletic programs. Not to mention, their is a real fear that the P5 could create their own governing body if they feel like they are being punished for the cost of doing business. You were kinda getting at this point with the TV rights.
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Old 04-14-2017, 07:06 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: OT: Reopening the Mess at UNC

I'm almost done with college sports. It's just become too big of a business. If I had my way scholarships couldn't be awarded to players at a school unless the players test scores and GPA were one standard deviation ABOVE the mean for that school. Playing sports takes a lot of time. Athletes should be more academically prepared for their college than their peers.
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Old 04-15-2017, 05:00 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: OT: Reopening the Mess at UNC

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I mostly agree with you on this jpschmack but even if SMU got left out of Big 12 party it isn't impossible to imagine they could have played their way back into the the P5 like TCU did.
My point was that everyone thinks the Death Penalty destroys the program for generations because SMU football sucked for 30 years.

But that's an ad hoc ergo proctor hoc situation: Just because SMU sucked for 30 years after the Death Penalty doesn't mean they sucked for 30 years BECAUSE of the death penalty.

They were a .425 program before Ron Meyer was hired. In the SWC. They were a .350 program after the Death Penalty, in the WAC/CUSA/AAC.

They sucked because SMU football has almost always sucked when they weren't cheating.
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Old 04-16-2017, 02:43 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: OT: Reopening the Mess at UNC

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My point was that everyone thinks the Death Penalty destroys the program for generations because SMU football sucked for 30 years.

But that's an ad hoc ergo proctor hoc situation: Just because SMU sucked for 30 years after the Death Penalty doesn't mean they sucked for 30 years BECAUSE of the death penalty.

They were a .425 program before Ron Meyer was hired. In the SWC. They were a .350 program after the Death Penalty, in the WAC/CUSA/AAC.

They sucked because SMU football has almost always sucked when they weren't cheating.
You answered the question yourself. They went from a slightly below average team in a conference that won national titles, to a terrible one in conferences that don't.

No school will be betting that they will recover either.
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Old 04-17-2017, 03:44 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: OT: Reopening the Mess at UNC

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You answered the question yourself. They went from a slightly below average team in a conference that won national titles, to a terrible one in conferences that don't.

No school will be betting that they will recover either.
But it's not the simple.

Just because a program gets the death penalty, doesn't mean they're going to:
- get kicked out of their conference (it's like 99.99999% another school wouldn't be).

- get kicked out of their stadium (The only teams who COULD be in that situation would be: San Diego State, Temple and UMass).


And this was at the same time that TV money entered college sports. You can't put the entire thing on the Death Penalty, when the breakup of the SWC and/or being left behind by the TV landscape could easily lead to the same thing:

RICE in the 25 years after SMU got the Death Penalty: .389
RICE in the 25 years prior to SMU hiring Ron Meyer: .415

Rice didnít cheat. Didnít get the death penalty. They just suck at football.
But they sucked WORSE once the SWC broke up and TV money came into the picture (despite being in an easier conference to win in!).

Or
Houston: .610 their first 15 years in the SWC (playing Texas, Baylor, cheating SMU)
Houston: .440 from when Arkansas left to the their last C-USA season.

Schools that get left behind drop off. Period.


If Penn State got the death penalty, they'd be fine long term.
They're not going to lose their stadium, they'd still be members of the Big Ten (probably a reduced TV share while they weren't playing football).

What happened to them? They had an exodus of recruits and transfers, got a massive fine; and didn't even have ONE LOSING SEASON.
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