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Old 01-06-2016, 08:57 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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By contrast, the South is the least educated part of the country with few universities per capita other than big state schools yet down there, college sports is the BFD with most of the professional franchises devoid of any tradition of greatness, notwithstanding the Dallas Cowboys, the San Antonio Spurs and to a much lesser extent, the Miami Dolphins and the Houston Rockets.
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I was startled out of a sound sleep by a dream I had.... A Umass alum was our head B-ball coach and he was really bad. It seemed like an endless reel of a bunch of players running around the floor with no game plan or structure of any kind. Umass really sucked - I woke up with this vision of the last place team in the A-10 beating the ever-lovin-shit out of us - it was very unsettling................ Wait - what - THIS REALLY HAPPENED?
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Old 01-06-2016, 09:11 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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I think that this is emblematic of one of the great sports ironies here in the USA. The northeastern US is probably the most educated part of the country with an abundance of universities per capita, both public and private. Yet, in that part of the country, college sports are a distant afterthought to the professional teams, especially in football. Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington and the pygmy cities in between, it's the same deal in all those towns. By contrast, the South is the least educated part of the country with few universities per capita other than big state schools yet down there, college sports is the BFD with most of the professional franchises devoid of any tradition of greatness, notwithstanding the Dallas Cowboys, the San Antonio Spurs and to a much lesser extent, the Miami Dolphins and the Houston Rockets.
Hmm.

In my original post about not buying a new FBS program in New England, I wanted to explore the south vs. north aspect of it to point out that ravenous college sports following is far more prevalent in the south, and less so in the northeast, in particular in major metropolitan locations. My thought process was leading me towards major metro.. liberal population.. me-first attitude.. don't care about the "team". Down south you have appreciation for the past, closer families, tighter community, root for the team.

I don't buy the education angle, I think it's simply cultural. There are plenty of dumbfucks in the northeast too.

Edit to add: Not to mention, what about the Big Ten? There are probably more Rhodes scholars painting their faces in the midwest every Saturday afternoon than anywhere else in the country.
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Last edited by BrownIndians85; 01-06-2016 at 09:16 AM. Reason: Another thought popped into my infantile brain.
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Old 01-06-2016, 10:16 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

I should move to Philly and fight for a parking space everyday. OK then.

The South's CFB dedication springs from decades of having no pro franchises, lots of beer and looking for something to do before church on Sunday.
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Old 01-06-2016, 12:56 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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Edit to add: Not to mention, what about the Big Ten? There are probably more Rhodes scholars painting their faces in the midwest every Saturday afternoon than anywhere else in the country.
Well in the midwest isn't setting the world on fire.
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:14 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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Originally Posted by BrownIndians85 View Post
Hmm.

In my original post about not buying a new FBS program in New England, I wanted to explore the south vs. north aspect of it to point out that ravenous college sports following is far more prevalent in the south, and less so in the northeast, in particular in major metropolitan locations. My thought process was leading me towards major metro.. liberal population.. me-first attitude.. don't care about the "team". Down south you have appreciation for the past, closer families, tighter community, root for the team.

I don't buy the education angle, I think it's simply cultural. There are plenty of dumbfucks in the northeast too.

Edit to add: Not to mention, what about the Big Ten? There are probably more Rhodes scholars painting their faces in the midwest every Saturday afternoon than anywhere else in the country.

First off, the only reason there'd be more Rhodes scholars in the midwest painting their faces than anywhere else is for two reasons:

#1 - the Northeast is full of small colleges of Rhodes Scholars without big time football.
#2 - The midwest is full of large state schools with BCS football.

Which brings me to my overall point connecting this all together:


The common thread in "Where college football is massive and where it isn't" has always been about LAND AND SPACE.

Big state schools were built in the middle of no where, where they had cheap land. Small towns grew up around them. They had ample room for football stadiums & practice fields.

All the students come from all over the state, and when they graduate will go back for football on Saturdays.


The stadium issue is/was/will be big problem for big city colleges...
- Villanova has kicked around FBS in the past, but the decision has always hinged on a stadium.

- Temple's wanted their own stadium for a while, can't get it built.

- Tulane's woes have been tied to a lack of on-campus stadium. They've been dreaming for decades and just finally crammed one into campus. It's tiny. Maybe too tiny for Big XII consideration (B12 would probably say "Texas, Oklahoma need to be played at the Dome")

- San Diego State has played in the way too big Jack Murphy and if the Chargers move to LA, what happens?

- Georgia State has been playing in the Georgia Dome, same problems as Tulane & SDSU in their NFL stadiums.... they just got a windfall... with the Braves leaving Turner Field, GSU is going to buy the facility and turn it into a football stadium!

- Even Miami, it wasn't until their team became excellent that playing 20 miles away from campus hasn't been a big deal.
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:35 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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The stadium issue is/was/will be big problem for big city colleges...
Correct, and UMass is not a big city college.
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:41 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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Correct, and UMass is not a big city college.
Amherst, MA population: 37,819

Clemson, SC population: 14,276
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:51 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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Originally Posted by jpschmack View Post
First off, the only reason there'd be more Rhodes scholars in the midwest painting their faces than anywhere else is for two reasons:

#1 - the Northeast is full of small colleges of Rhodes Scholars without big time football.
#2 - The midwest is full of large state schools with BCS football.

Which brings me to my overall point connecting this all together:


The common thread in "Where college football is massive and where it isn't" has always been about LAND AND SPACE.

Big state schools were built in the middle of no where, where they had cheap land. Small towns grew up around them. They had ample room for football stadiums & practice fields.

All the students come from all over the state, and when they graduate will go back for football on Saturdays.


The stadium issue is/was/will be big problem for big city colleges...
- Villanova has kicked around FBS in the past, but the decision has always hinged on a stadium.

- Temple's wanted their own stadium for a while, can't get it built.

- Tulane's woes have been tied to a lack of on-campus stadium. They've been dreaming for decades and just finally crammed one into campus. It's tiny. Maybe too tiny for Big XII consideration (B12 would probably say "Texas, Oklahoma need to be played at the Dome")

- San Diego State has played in the way too big Jack Murphy and if the Chargers move to LA, what happens?

- Georgia State has been playing in the Georgia Dome, same problems as Tulane & SDSU in their NFL stadiums.... they just got a windfall... with the Braves leaving Turner Field, GSU is going to buy the facility and turn it into a football stadium!

- Even Miami, it wasn't until their team became excellent that playing 20 miles away from campus hasn't been a big deal.
There is still something about the northeast. Syracuse and Rutgers are in good to excellent conferences and still fail to rise to the levels of the truly big time football schools. It is not about the stadium location.

As for Miami, when they were excellent, they were 6 to 7 miles from their stadium. They are now 20 to 21 miles from their stadium and it is a problem and likely will remain a problem until they become excellent again. And they will!
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Old 01-06-2016, 04:03 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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Originally Posted by paulxu View Post
Amherst, MA population: 37,819

Clemson, SC population: 14,276
The issue is with space on campus when you're talking about city schools. UMass is most definitely not a city school despite that population difference.

Here's the area around the current on campus stadium:



There's plenty of other space for a stadium. Much more than just in that image. Which is not the issue city schools have.
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Old 01-06-2016, 04:05 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

JP I get the point you are trying to make. Most of us do. However, your comments about Temple and Nova are just wrong.

Nova has ZERO interest in FBS football. They thought about it maybe a little less than a decade ago and scratched the idea. They would have absolutely no problem funding a stadium or finding a location nearby.

Temple football just doesn't interest this city or the northeast. Outside of the Penn State and Notre Dame game this year was is a prime example of that. Lincoln Financial doesn't hurt their case, it's just expensive for them to use. Living in the city I can tell you a subway ride from Temple to AT&T station is maybe 15 minutes so it isn't a matter of distance.
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:52 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

The only reason the Big12 would want UConn is if they wanted their two basketball programs. The football program would be viewed as a loss leader for the conference just to get a championship game.

Didnt UConn's athletic department have to buy 31,000 empty seats at Joe Robbie/Pro Player/Whatever Its Now Called Stadium for the Orange Bowl a few years ago? Not even UConn fans care about UConn football.

Cincinnati is a much better fit. They were 1 second and a Colt McCoy throw out of bounds away from playing for the national title about 6 years ago. Just renovated Nippert Stadium. Cincinnati is a much bigger market. Better geographically to WVU (4.5hrs by bus). Good basketball though admittedly nothing like UConn and the fans are fair-weather and still think the Huggie Bear days should be the standard. Cincinnati is a very strong academic school.

Also like Memphis. Excellent market. Liberty Bowl holds 60,000. Fed Ex Forum for Memphis basketball. When Memphis is on top, they are "the show" in that town.
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:12 AM   #87 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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Amherst, MA population: 37,819

Clemson, SC population: 14,276
That is only accurate when school is in session (of which there are 3 colleges that bloat that number - Umass, Amherst College and Hampshire College). Amherst has about 22K actual residents - not sure why it is counted this way, but that is why it "looks" so large.
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I was startled out of a sound sleep by a dream I had.... A Umass alum was our head B-ball coach and he was really bad. It seemed like an endless reel of a bunch of players running around the floor with no game plan or structure of any kind. Umass really sucked - I woke up with this vision of the last place team in the A-10 beating the ever-lovin-shit out of us - it was very unsettling................ Wait - what - THIS REALLY HAPPENED?
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:15 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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The only reason the Big12 would want UConn is if they wanted their two basketball programs. The football program would be viewed as a loss leader for the conference just to get a championship game.

Didnt UConn's athletic department have to buy 31,000 empty seats at Joe Robbie/Pro Player/Whatever Its Now Called Stadium for the Orange Bowl a few years ago? Not even UConn fans care about UConn football.

Cincinnati is a much better fit. They were 1 second and a Colt McCoy throw out of bounds away from playing for the national title about 6 years ago. Just renovated Nippert Stadium. Cincinnati is a much bigger market. Better geographically to WVU (4.5hrs by bus). Good basketball though admittedly nothing like UConn and the fans are fair-weather and still think the Huggie Bear days should be the standard. Cincinnati is a very strong academic school.

Also like Memphis. Excellent market. Liberty Bowl holds 60,000. Fed Ex Forum for Memphis basketball. When Memphis is on top, they are "the show" in that town.

Heh heh... he said "Nippert" Stadium.....
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I was startled out of a sound sleep by a dream I had.... A Umass alum was our head B-ball coach and he was really bad. It seemed like an endless reel of a bunch of players running around the floor with no game plan or structure of any kind. Umass really sucked - I woke up with this vision of the last place team in the A-10 beating the ever-lovin-shit out of us - it was very unsettling................ Wait - what - THIS REALLY HAPPENED?
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:37 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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That is only accurate when school is in session (of which there are 3 colleges that bloat that number - Umass, Amherst College and Hampshire College). Amherst has about 22K actual residents - not sure why it is counted this way, but that is why it "looks" so large.
If you are correct, then Clemson is in a lot of trouble.
They have about 23,000 students...which would make their town's population a negative 9000 or so.
Actually, that may be right.
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Old 01-07-2016, 06:39 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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The issue is with space on campus when you're talking about city schools. UMass is most definitely not a city school despite that population difference.

Here's the area around the current on campus stadium:



There's plenty of other space for a stadium. Much more than just in that image. Which is not the issue city schools have.
e - there is a ton of room, but you cannot count any space there are trees however. Nobody in Amherst will allow a tree to be displaced for a football stadium....

They just need to suck this up for 3 more years at Gillette and flatten the old building and put up a 40K seat building. They just built that football performance center and that can still be connected just not in the end-zone any more. They have already set a precedent by dropping millions on their shitty Basketball program performance center (BTW men and women's teams both suck) - so why not spend the money on the shitty football team too?


I have to admit that I am more than shocked that they build the basketball center - it is the only thing they have done a complete first class job on in 20 years. The football performance center is fantastic, but in the bigger picture it is still little more than lipstick on a pig as far as I am concerned. Umass has a history of doing the bare minimum to create the illusion of doing more...
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I was startled out of a sound sleep by a dream I had.... A Umass alum was our head B-ball coach and he was really bad. It seemed like an endless reel of a bunch of players running around the floor with no game plan or structure of any kind. Umass really sucked - I woke up with this vision of the last place team in the A-10 beating the ever-lovin-shit out of us - it was very unsettling................ Wait - what - THIS REALLY HAPPENED?
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