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Old 04-10-2017, 04:16 PM   #946 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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Originally Posted by e-parade View Post
jp - the question wasn't about us going all sports to C-USA. The question was would FBS football be worth it in there with us as a Football only. To that: yes.

Easy answer. We make more in the buyouts in FBS in a single game (when we have mutliple games that are buyouts) than we would in almost 2 full seasons at FCS
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Folks, the whole point of the post was there was a possible plan B, where we would stay in the A10. We sold-out our football team to independent to stay at with the A10.

We've been kicking the can down the road, but something better happen with the Big 12 or elsewhere. The football team has been playing second fiddle to basketball for a long-long time. Some would say why, the basketball team has only made the NCAA once this century and that was a one and done deal.
I wasn't really talking about UMASS per se. (I'm not saying "UMass should drop football" UMass should do what's best for UMass).

I was speaking more about Atlantic 10 compared to the non-BCS conferences with FBS or FCS football (aka American, Mountain West).


And for the record, I think FCS football is pretty pointless. You CAN make a little money being good at FCS with lower expenses and happy fans who enjoy football on campus on Saturday's. And those fans/alums would be livid if you cut football.

But the reason to have FCS football has become "We can't afford FBS football and we can't afford to cut football." It's purgatory.

I'm also one of those weird people who doesn't care that much about college football (or NFL football) compared to other sports. I like NHL, MLB, College Hoops, other college sports.

I LIKE THE SPORT. Saturday college football is fun to watch. Sunday NFL is fun to watch. But I don't care for the rest of the week. For two reasons:

#1 - Each Saturday has four games that actually matter and the rest are "People think we're good and we will continue to be perceived as good unless we fuck up this week."

College football season is a lot like the world of National Team Gymnastics. They barnstorm all over the country selling tickets to families with little girls, so they can raise money for training and Olympic expenses. And then there's a few championship events sprinkled in.

Take a look at a college schedule. You’ve got an entire division of a BCS conference that’s spending $3.5 million buying four guarantee games, including one FCS opponent. So they can kick their ass in front of 75,000+ ticket buyers.

They’re all 4-0 in those games. But two of the 6 teams secretly suck. They lose to the other four teams in conference play. Which makes them 4-4; and the other four teams in the division 6-0.

You’ve got four 8-0 teams who’ve done nothing but beat bad teams.
They play each other and someone’s going 0-3, 1-2, 2-1, 3-0.

Then you get Western Michigan, who just goes 13-0 against bad teams — including Big Ten bad teams. And everyone says “Well, who did you play?” So they finish the regular season behind 7-4 LSU in the polls; because LSU went 7-1 against eight terrible teams, and 0-3 against teams who went 7-1 or better against terrible teams.

What's the difference between Chattanooga at Alabama in front of 100,000 in Bryant-Denny Stadium, and the US Gymnastics teams selling tickets on their tour after the Olympics to raise money? Nothing.


#2 - It's all set-up and no payoff. A week is 168 hours long. The game takes 3 hours. And these schools and networks are basically giving me 148 hours of pregame talk for a 3-hour game. And like I said, 1/4 of the games max are actually interesting while the rest are "Gee, can this ranked team avoid fucking up against a terrible team?"

The 24/7 coverage of NFL and college football makes me sick.
Each NFL team is playing 54 hours of football. And NFL Network runs 8736 hours of coverage.. That's insane. That's 0.006% of the year a team is actually playing football (including the commercial breaks and halftime.

If football was like a GREAT JOKE with a five-word punchline, the set-up would be 808 words long. This post is 603 words long and most of you have stopped reading.

If I’m going to force you into a 600 word setup, that punchline better be fucking amazing, not just fundraising versus shitty teams.
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Old 04-10-2017, 09:32 PM   #947 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

jpschmack, really respect your views and opinion. The thing that I enjoy more about football is the whole social aspect of tail gating for 3-4 hours before the game. Food is the big thing and can take drinking or not. Visiting with friends and other fans and the game is draw. Enjoyed the band more when Parks was alive and Gillette club seats kind of killed it as went in during half time, but it's all good and games are back on campus.

Like the A10 and why I posted the stuff about plan B. But also like to be up front and kind of use that competitive juices that most of use fans have to some good will.

On the UMassHoops board posted that Football season ticket sales had already out sold all of 2016 tweet from the Athletic department. Then said I believe UMass Football season tickets are now ahead of basketball season tickets. (I really don't know.) Then said swallow real hard and what are you going to do about it. This was said to get some people off the pot and put down a deposit on basketball season tickets.

Like both sports, wish Temple never left and we both had the A10/MAC combo.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:03 PM   #948 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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Originally Posted by JAF_1962 View Post
JP, I admire your ability to crunch numbers and theory, but the NCAA has figured out how the non P5 fights the system and stacks the deck against us. We need to win games against "name" programs. It's not going to happen if we selectively schedule so that we don't lose games.
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I think you're trying to avoid the inevitable here, JAF. No matter what we do, we will always have the deck stacked against us the same. Nothing the non P5 does will ever matter.
JAF, my belief is that the A-10’s going to be more likely to get picked by the committee with a 25-7 record, Top 40 RPI and only in-conference marquee wins; than they are to win enough of the true road games at BCS schools in Nov/Dec to be considered a power conference.

St. Bonaventure won at Dayton last year for their first true road win against a ranked team EVER. EVER. As a program, we had more Final Four banners than true road wins over ranked teams.


sjhawk is right: We are screwed either way. I just think we have more of a chance with smoke and mirrors than we do actually winning the necessary amount of games to be considered a major conference.


And please, please, please remember that I’m not suggesting the ENTIRE ATLANTIC 10 not play anyone. All of my scheduling philosophies are different depending on which group of team you are in. You and I AGREE on scheduling philosophy for teams like VCU & Dayton, who are the “A-10 favorites and getting preseason Top 25 votes.” It’s the other three tiers of the A-10 that need to avoid PROVING that the A-10 isn’t as good as the BCS by ducking those bastards at all costs.


Last season vs BCS (Counting P5, Big East, and only the Top 100 RPI AAC teams, not the Tulane’s of the world)
1-9 vs Top 25 (1-6 neutral, 0-3 road)
4-16 vs 26-100 (1-1 home, 0-1 neutral, 0-1 road)
3-9 vs 101-200 (0-3 home, 2-4 neutral, 1-2 road)
2-0 vs 201+ (2-0 neutral)

Going 5-9 vs 101+ isn’t helping us at all. We’re SUPPOSED to win those games, and we didn’t win enough.
Going 1-9 vs Top 25 isn’t “hurting” us. We’re SUPPOSED to lose those games, and we did. These are the games that make people say “We tried” and actually get us bids. We just can’t lose too many without hurting our RPI. And if you lose by 40, you’re toast.

It’s that 4-16 vs 26-100 that’s killing us. Why are we so bad? Not because we’re bad at basketball, but because we never get these games at home.
HOME: 2-3 (.400). AWAY: 2-13 (.133). Road games have BCS officials making pro-BCS calls and screwing us over.

Oh, JP, that was a down year for the A-10!

2015-16:
3-11 vs Top 25 (1-9 away from home)
8-18 vs 26-100 (6-15 away from home)

2014-15:
2-20 vs Top 25 (1-18 away from home)
6-8 vs 26-100 (4-7 away from home)

2013-14
4-14 vs Top 25 (4-11 away from home)
9-18 vs 26-100 (6-15 away from home)

2012-13
1-10 vs Top 25 (1-9 away from home)
6-17 vs 26-100 (4-15 away from home)

FIVE YEAR:
11-65 vs Top 25 (.145) including 8-56 (.125) away from home
33-75 vs 26-100 (.306) including 22-65 (.252) away from home


In order for an A-10 bubble team to get 3 marquee OOC wins over BCS opponents, they need to schedule 10 games so they go 3-7. But that makes them 5-7 OOC, which takes them off the bubble before January hits.

We NEED to be selective, pick and choose our spots. If you're like 2016 St. Bonaventure (Picked 7th in the league) it's better to be the smoke and mirrors (we lost to Syracuse but our RPI is good! Take us!) than to do what GW did this past year: lose to FSU, Miami and Penn State; finish 102 in the RPI and never be considered.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:22 PM   #949 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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jpschmack, really respect your views and opinion. The thing that I enjoy more about football is the whole social aspect of tail gating for 3-4 hours before the game. Food is the big thing and can take drinking or not. Visiting with friends and other fans and the game is draw. Enjoyed the band more when Parks was alive and Gillette club seats kind of killed it as went in during half time, but it's all good and games are back on campus.

Like the A10 and why I posted the stuff about plan B. But also like to be up front and kind of use that competitive juices that most of use fans have to some good will.

On the UMassHoops board posted that Football season ticket sales had already out sold all of 2016 tweet from the Athletic department. Then said I believe UMass Football season tickets are now ahead of basketball season tickets. (I really don't know.) Then said swallow real hard and what are you going to do about it. This was said to get some people off the pot and put down a deposit on basketball season tickets.

Like both sports, wish Temple never left and we both had the A10/MAC combo.
I love the crisp fall game day atmosphere of college football. The community aspect, the tailgating, the pageantry and the tradition. The team taking the field. Keith Jackson’s voice.

And I also like organ music and silence at a baseball stadium instead of promotions and ads. The fact is, college sports is now business.

If your school thinks having non-BCS football is a necessary part of campus life and must be retained to preserve that tradition and pageantry; that’s totally cool. I respect that.

My school can’t compete financially in football, so we don’t have it and put all our eggs in the hoops basket. In fact, MOST of the Atlantic 10 has been this way for decades. And I think this is why everyone kind of expects UMass to eventually move on from the Atlantic 10.

History of the A-10
NONE: Mason, GW, Bona, LaSalle, SJU, SLU, VCU
FCS: Dayton, Richmond, Rhode Island, Duquesne, Davidson, Fordham
FBS: UMass

LEFT THE A-10
Xavier (none)
Butler (FCS)
Villanova (FCS)

Penn State (FBS)
Pittsburgh (FBS)
Rutgers (FBS)
West Virginia (FBS)
Va Tech (FBS)
Temple (FBS)
Charlotte (left to add it)


I’m not saying UMass needs to GTFO. I’m saying Conferences are (supposed to be) peer institutions working towards a common mission. So we all think UMass is probably destined for the AAC when they are good at football and the same time Wichita State wants to add it.
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:10 AM   #950 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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The accounting for scholarships as an expense is a little suspect in my opinion. The classes attended by athletes are offered to and filled by paying students so there really isn't a true cost to the University.
It depends on the school. At Fordham, athletes take actual spots, both in the dorms and in the classrooms.
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:51 AM   #951 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

Per Matt Norlander, the MVC has invited Valpo to be its 10th member. He also says the league plans to stick with 10 schools. That's somewhat surprising, as Murray State and a handful of others were said to be strongly considered.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:37 PM   #952 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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Per Matt Norlander, the MVC has invited Valpo to be its 10th member. He also says the league plans to stick with 10 schools. That's somewhat surprising, as Murray State and a handful of others were said to be strongly considered.
I have thoughts on that. But more importantly....YOUR AVATAR.

Let's talk about that for a second. How long has that been your avatar, and if it's more than six weeks, how the eff did I miss that? I instantly recognize that from 2000, Tim Winn, NCAA Tournament vs Kentucky... our clip from One Shining Moment. But I'm talking about it now because...

I AM IN YOUR AVATAR. The two dudes in the band wearing dark blue/black hats to Timmy's left? I'm the one in the Mets alternate hat, and the guy in the Yankee hat is my buddy Matt.

(I "joined" the pep band on Wednesday afternoon before the Thursday afternoon NCAA game so I could get into the building).
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Old 05-09-2017, 02:35 PM   #953 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

I'm not seeing what you're seeing.
First, his avatar looks like Agent Smith from the Matrix, right before he blows up.
Second, I don't see you and your buddy.
I see two guys in striped shirts who look like they are kissing.
(not that there anything wrong with that)

WTF?
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Old 05-10-2017, 05:54 AM   #954 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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I'm not seeing what you're seeing.
First, his avatar looks like Agent Smith from the Matrix, right before he blows up.
Second, I don't see you and your buddy.
I see two guys in striped shirts who look like they are kissing.
(not that there anything wrong with that)

WTF?
I could be wrong, but I think jp is referring to Tim Winn's other left. Having said that, I don't see two guys with hats either. I probably need new magnifiers.
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Old 05-10-2017, 07:10 AM   #955 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

JP's probably got a 60" computer monitor, and can see a lot I can't.
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Old 05-12-2017, 02:58 PM   #956 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

Been think after reading the Dayton Remodel prerequisite to BigEast thread that by 2025, the A10 could be losing 3 teams.

11 teams can work but who would be the top target if, Dayton and SLU went to the BigEast and UMass left for conference unknown.

Will it be the team with the biggest following as going for markets and large footprint seemed to be a bust for CUSA and to some extent the American. Same can be said for the New York, New York market and Fordham.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-817608-post...ml#pid14331710

BigEast Contract
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...tract/2002227/
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Old 05-12-2017, 04:59 PM   #957 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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Been think after reading the Dayton Remodel prerequisite to BigEast thread that by 2025, the A10 could be losing 3 teams.

11 teams can work but who would be the top target if, Dayton and SLU went to the BigEast and UMass left for conference unknown.
That would be a really shitty scenario, but the A10 would almost certainly add one more east coast school and focus on being a solid multi-bid league from New England all the way into the Carolinas. There would be no point in reaching out to the Midwest again.

Now, I know what the run-of-the-mill meathead college hoops fan will say: "Durrrrrrr! Talent! Durrrrrrr! TV markets! Durrrrrr! Four-star recruits! Durrrr! If the Atlantic 10 loses Dayton and Saint Louis, it won't be a multi-bid league anymore!" Well, those same types of meatheads have been saying that same shit through our league losing Penn State, Villanova, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Rutgers, Temple, Xavier, Butler, and Virginia Tech. We have a solid, gritty reputation and salt-of-the-earth programs with solid tradition. It is always a challenge, but the conference will survive.

I've said it many times, but I know for a fact that Charleston is on the league's radar as a program with a lot of potential and solid facilities. Nobody out there can replace what Dayton brings us, so looking at potential for growth will be crucial.

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Old 05-12-2017, 05:02 PM   #958 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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Been think after reading the Dayton Remodel prerequisite to BigEast thread that by 2025, the A10 could be losing 3 teams.

11 teams can work but who would be the top target if, Dayton and SLU went to the BigEast and UMass left for conference unknown.

Will it be the team with the biggest following as going for markets and large footprint seemed to be a bust for CUSA and to some extent the American. Same can be said for the New York, New York market and Fordham.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-817608-post...ml#pid14331710

BigEast Contract
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...tract/2002227/
I'm growing weary of all the NBE and Dayton talk whenever UD does something news worthy. I might be in the minority - an ever increasing minority - but the NBE has no appeal to me. One, I think that UD should have absolutely nothing to with Xavier. Two, the C7 are not friends of UD. They do not like us.

The best case scenario for UD, and 15 other A10 members, is for the A10 to get better and be more committed to basketball across the board. The league has good bones. There are multiple programs that have won big recently, and there is no reason for the league to not have double digit top 100 RPI teams.

The second best scenario would be for UD to join the AAC.

I hope that UD is not spending $72 fucking million to entice the NBE. The Arena needs a good make over and it will make UD more attractive when bidding on men's and women's first weekend NCAA games.

Just one more thing that pisses me off is the Cincinnati MSA extends north to Montgomery County. This means that all the NBE fucks that cite TV markets are missing the fact that UD Arena sits 10 miles north of the so called Cincinnati TV market. The UC people posting on the board that you linked understand The TV markets.
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:11 PM   #959 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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The best case scenario for UD, and 15 other A10 members, is for the A10 to get better and be more committed to basketball across the board.
I went out to dinner and the league added 2 teams.
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:44 PM   #960 (permalink)
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Re: Reshuffling Conferences

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I went out to dinner and the league added 2 teams.
Dang, how did that happen
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