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Old 01-07-2017, 01:49 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

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Are the UMass freshmen living up to expectations? I seem to remember they brought in some highly touted recruits.
Pipkins and Jarreau looked good to me. I think Kellogg needs to reign things in a bit though. The style of play lends itself to bad shots and turnovers. Very athletic and talented young players though.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:52 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

They require coaching...so they're screwed.
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Old 01-08-2017, 07:34 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

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They require coaching...so they're screwed.
It would certainly appear that way.


I am not giving them a pass on the first 5 games of this conference schedule just because it is so hard. I don't think will win any of them, but that does not mean they have to look inept while doing it.

Through the first 3 of these games the word that best describes what I have seen is "inconsistent".

- Shooting is horrid
- Passing is sloppy
- Player usage is head scratching ( See how Baldwin has been used for example)
- Game Strategy is poor.... Pressing is just dumb, they cannot stop anyone unless it is by accident and they expend too much energy NOT doing it correctly.
- Their best player looks like a f-ing Zombie on the court and DK does nothing about it
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Old 01-09-2017, 04:15 AM   #94 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

Watching Derek Kellogg basketball feels a bit like Bill Murray in 'Groundhog Day'.

In November you think, 'hmmm, might have something here'. 'They could make some noise in AtlanticCityBrooklynPhillyDayton'. This followed by de rigueur just miss against a lesser BCS team.

You begin the A10 season with a few murmurs of "we couldashoulda been 12-1". And then you start racking up missed bunnies at an alarming rate. You give the opponent 5,6,7 chances to score because rebounding and boxing out are foreign concepts when you play for Derek Kellogg. You're raining 3's down. It's shock and awe, but not in a good way. Why are these clowns bending the rims like that when they've got these big beasts down low that CAN make a freaking layup? The grumbling about Kellogg heats up. And you muddle along.

In February you put a little run together, but that's just so you don't sound like a complete idiot as you say things like 'they're deep, they can make a run in AtlanticCityBrooklynPhillyDayton'.

After the one and out in AtlanticCityBrooklynPhillyDayton everyone is hollering for a coaching change but at the same time they say 'they were young. Next year it will be different'.

I don't get it. Kellogg was an A10 All Academic. He's a smart guy. He was on a team that won 4 straight regular season and tournament championships under Calipari. He worked as an assistant under Calipari. Say what you will about Calipari, but the guy knows BB and is a great coach. How is it that absolutely nothing, nothing at all, has rubbed off on one of his favorite students? Maybe he should open up Derek Kellogg Ford over in Northampton and be done with it already. He'd be good at that.
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:25 AM   #95 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

I would say that UMass is young so they will be fine next year but Kellogg has been head coach since the 08-09 season. His roster management is questionable. There is no reason to have an unbalanced team of young players.
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:23 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

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I would say that UMass is young so they will be fine next year but Kellogg has been head coach since the 08-09 season. His roster management is questionable. There is no reason to have an unbalanced team of young players.
Oh Aidan - how foolish a statement you make.....

This has nothing to do with youth - this has to do with coaching. It starts and stops there.

Every night looks like an experiment. Different looks, different combos, rarely taking advantage of obvious advantages or strengths, stubbornness.

Thus far, the 2016-2017 season is shaping up like every other DK campaign.

Early optimism with a step back, in January. Up next is a minor run to make you think they are turning the corner near the end of Jan early Feb only to limp, crash, and burn down the stretch.

What will make this even more painful this time is that the schedule is back loaded with with the weaker teams in the conference. You will see just how bad a coach DK is as the lower tier of the A-10 coaches see the book on Umass and adjust to it - while DK just puts his head down and tries to ram though without doing anything different.

The youth argument can work both ways unfortunately. You can blame it, but it should also be more teachable - and therefore, improvements should be more evident more quickly as well.....

Right now the freshmen are stagnating and while Holloway is playing much much better, they guy who needs to really step up (Clark) looks like he is in a fog..... I can't describe what he did in the VCU game but it sure as hell wasn't being an upper-classmen leader.....
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:27 AM   #97 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

If DK finishes his contract - Travis Ford and St Louis will already be running laps around him in his last season and that will be an absolute unexcusable shame....
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:28 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

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Oh Aidan - how foolish a statement you make.....

This has nothing to do with youth - this has to do with coaching. It starts and stops there.

Every night looks like an experiment. Different looks, different combos, rarely taking advantage of obvious advantages or strengths, stubbornness.

Thus far, the 2016-2017 season is shaping up like every other DK campaign.

Early optimism with a step back, in January. Up next is a minor run to make you think they are turning the corner near the end of Jan early Feb only to limp, crash, and burn down the stretch.

What will make this even more painful this time is that the schedule is back loaded with with the weaker teams in the conference. You will see just how bad a coach DK is as the lower tier of the A-10 coaches see the book on Umass and adjust to it - while DK just puts his head down and tries to ram though without doing anything different.

The youth argument can work both ways unfortunately. You can blame it, but it should also be more teachable - and therefore, improvements should be more evident more quickly as well.....

Right now the freshmen are stagnating and while Holloway is playing much much better, they guy who needs to really step up (Clark) looks like he is in a fog..... I can't describe what he did in the VCU game but it sure as hell wasn't being an upper-classmen leader.....
I was talking about the experience levels on the team in regards to recruiting classes. Any lull will cause problems. I did not even address bench coaching. When I was at the game I noticed the backloaded line up. It is hard to win games with an inexperienced line up. It is the coach's job to get the pieces to insure success and it appears to me 3 or 4 years ago Kellogg was asleep at the recruiting wheel.
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:14 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

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I was talking about the experience levels on the team in regards to recruiting classes. Any lull will cause problems. I did not even address bench coaching. When I was at the game I noticed the backloaded line up. It is hard to win games with an inexperienced line up. It is the coach's job to get the pieces to insure success and it appears to me 3 or 4 years ago Kellogg was asleep at the recruiting wheel.

The only thing I have completely agreed with DK on this season is the playing of his freshmen over some returning guys.

Coleman Berger and Anderson are and should be played over. Anderson has been playing better and earned a little more run than the other two but he should still be a secondary player.

I have said before that practice can only show you so much, you need to log real time game minutes to really learn. That being said, they may learn some bad habits, but the speed and timing can never be properly replicated in practice. I was/am willing to sacrifice wins this season for the gained experience AS LONG AS they improve over the course of the year as well. The improvement part remains to be seen, but at least they are getting minutes. DK should be using this time to improve his own game management as well and that is not happening either - maybe that is not a completely fair statement right now, but as we get to the final 3rd of the season, we will all see just how inept he is at evolving over the course of the season.

Case in point, your point guard is leading the team in FGA per game, AND his shooting percentage is horrible to boot. Does DK reign him in a bit and maybe have your point guard create some shots for others - nope... not DK.

The only player that i don't understand is Baldwin. When he plays he seems to do some really good stuff. Plays solid D, he rebounds pretty well, his scoring is inconsistent, but he always seems to get good opportunities around the basket. He has s toughness that Umass has sorely lacked for a long time as well. But he will play 15-18 minutes one night, then maybe Zero the next ???? I don't get it?
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Old 01-16-2017, 04:05 AM   #100 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

They gave up a very large 1st half lead, and lost. But I liked what I saw for the most part vs URI, save for a couple of ill-advised 3 pt shots by Pipkins and DeJuan. Pipkins especially. He makes one 3 and suddenly he thinks he's Vinnie Johnson and can't get down there to jack up another fast enough.

Those cameos by Berger and Flowers really drove home the point that this team is going to be different. Those 2 were classic UMass players from the past. Long and lean. And beyond that they don't do anything. I'm glad they're at the very end of a deep bench instead of integral parts of the lineup.
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Old 01-16-2017, 12:21 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

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They gave up a very large 1st half lead, and lost. But I liked what I saw for the most part vs URI, save for a couple of ill-advised 3 pt shots by Pipkins and DeJuan. Pipkins especially. He makes one 3 and suddenly he thinks he's Vinnie Johnson and can't get down there to jack up another fast enough.

Those cameos by Berger and Flowers really drove home the point that this team is going to be different. Those 2 were classic UMass players from the past. Long and lean. And beyond that they don't do anything. I'm glad they're at the very end of a deep bench instead of integral parts of the lineup.

To use a more current and relevant comparison - That is vintage Terrell Vinson. Nothing drove me more crazy that watching a 6'8" 265LB rebounding machine - NOT rebound, and jack up 3 pointers like he was Allan Iverson..... If he made his first attempt - getthefuckouttatheway they were going up all night.

Possibly and arguably the single biggest failure of the DK era - for what he was and what he should have been.
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Old 01-16-2017, 01:26 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

I feel like Kellogg's basketball philosophy (maybe that's too strong of a word) is at odd's with his recruiting. It seems as if he wants to play fast, generate turnovers and shoot a lot of three's - except he doesn't recruit enough guys to fit that system. Historically they've never been consistently good at TO% or 3FG%. After nine years they only thing we can say for sure about a Kellogg-coached team is they will play fast.
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Old 01-16-2017, 03:39 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

If Kellogg played Dayton at Mullins for the entire A10 home schedule, he'd never finish worse than .500 in the A10. Unfortunately, that's not happening.
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Old 01-16-2017, 05:26 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

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I feel like Kellogg's basketball philosophy (maybe that's too strong of a word) is at odd's with his recruiting. It seems as if he wants to play fast, generate turnovers and shoot a lot of three's - except he doesn't recruit enough guys to fit that system. Historically they've never been consistently good at TO% or 3FG%. After nine years they only thing we can say for sure about a Kellogg-coached team is they will play fast.
The biggest problem hasn't been the philosophy, it was the roughly 3-year span of atrocious recruiting resulting in a lot of guys that can't play at the A10 level. If you consider players being in the class in which they are eligible, the 2012, 2013 and 2014 classes were as follows:

2012 - Trey Davis, Tyler Bergantino, Isaac Freeman
2013 - Zach Coleman, Seth Berger, Clyde Santee, Demetrius Dyson
2014 - Donte Clark, CJ Anderson

You can add in transfers Derrick Gordon (played at UMass '13-14 and '14-15) and Jabarie Hinds ('14-15 and '15-16), but it doesn't make it look much better.

Coleman and Berger were supposed to be combo forwards that developed a 3pt shot, Santee was billed as a great shooter coming in and Dyson was also supposed to be a good shooter. Coleman and Berger have been relegated to playing behind the freshmen with spot minutes in some games and DNP in others and the other two didn't pan out and transferred.
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Old 01-19-2017, 10:32 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Re: 2016-17 UMass Minutemen

Oye` what a gross basketball game against St Joe's.

CJ Anderson has been playing solid basketball, but the fact that they have had to rely on him so much is troubling. He is still not that good and should not be logging the minutes he has had to take on.

I do think that Jarreau and Pipkins are victims of a normal Freshmen adjustment period, but good lord, the lack of offensive structure is not helping them. I have seen Umass actually run a few set plays, but they are few and far between and the freelance stuff is the root of their issues IMO.

As much as I do not like DK as our coach, I was pleasantly surprised to see him basically bench those 2. It will be interesting to see if that can slow them down a little bit. There is a moment when the game will slow down for them and that is when things will come together, but until then, the speed at which they are trying to go just looks like a train wreck.

Overall shot selection is terrible (wide open or not) and they need to understand when and when not to jack up those 3's.

Fordham is going to be a problem for us - I really like their coach and he will be prepared for us - unlike Umass last night who looked like they were seeing a zone defense for the first time all year.....
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