Conference underperforming. - Page 3 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums
BasketballForum.com is the premier basketball Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
User Tag List

Like Tree89Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-27-2016, 08:26 AM   #31 (permalink)
Star
 
Tournaments Won: 1

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 3,544
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 544 Post(s)
URI has a chance to improve its own image and help the A10s image if they perform well over their next 4 games

@ Valpo
@ Providence
Vs. ODU
@ Houston
ATPTourFan likes this.
twisted3829 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-27-2016, 08:31 AM   #32 (permalink)
Benchwarmer
 

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Re: Conference underperforming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twisted3829 View Post
URI has a chance to improve its own image and help the A10s image if they perform well over their next 4 games

@ Valpo
@ Providence
Vs. ODU
@ Houston

All of those games are winnable.

I really hope if one is dropped it isn't ODU. They have been a thorn in the A10's side for a while.
Pinnum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 09:28 AM   #33 (permalink)
Star
 
A10La Salle55's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,769
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Re: Conference underperforming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpschmack View Post
It's not irrelevant at all.

What makes the BCS "power conferences" the Power Conferences is that teams like TCU go 10-2 OOC, so the worst team on the Big XII conference schedule finishes 14-16, which makes their SOS ridiculously higher than Gonzaga, who end up with eight games against teams finishing 7-23, 9-21, 11-19, etc.
You are right, it probably isn't accurate to say the bottom is irrelevant. To me though what makes power conferences, power conferences isn't TCU going 10-2 through a cupcake OOC, it's having multiple teams in the top 25 taking out quality opponent after quality opponent. Look at Wisconsin last year, they were dreadful in the OOC losing bad games and not picking up quality wins. However, since the B10 is so strong at the top they were able to get their shit together and get a number of wins over top 25 teams whether it was Indiana or Michigan State.

The bottom of the conference just seems to me to be much less of a factor. Just look at the AAC, they were below us in RPI and got 4 teams in mainly because of SMU. Even though, we all know the case with that.

I just think it is so much more important to have very good teams at the top. Don't get me wrong a number of the teams were strong in the conference the past couple years. However, the years we got multiple bids we had great teams at the top.

VCU was a top 25 team consistently under Shaka. SLU had those great runs and one year was a top 15 team throughout much of the season. Same goes for UMass in 2013-2014. Richmond in 2014-2015 didn't perform in the OOC well enough and there wasn't enough quality wins for them to pick up in conference play. The year La Salle made the tournament that Butler and VCU win launched them well into the tournament before crawling there.

When you have teams that RPI and rank is very high it helps tremendously for the image of the conference.

We probably are going to be somewhat improved from last year in terms of RPI but if URI and VCU or whoever else overperform in the OOC it will be much easier for other A10 teams to pick up quality wins without hurting the other team too much.
A10La Salle55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 09:34 AM   #34 (permalink)
on the mtn
 

Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Re: Conference underperforming.

knowbody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 01:17 PM   #35 (permalink)
#RiseoftheBillikens2.0
Photobucket
 
EpicFailGuy's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St. Louis Metro
Posts: 17,616
Mentioned: 459 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1696 Post(s)
Re: Conference underperforming.

I can make an argument either way.

During the Big East back and forth, several people said something along these lines:

"Nobody gives a damn about the bottom of the conference...they aren't getting bids anyway, so it's better for them to be terrible". As a SLU fan, I can say with almost certainty that Saint Louis University will have little to no effect on the Atlantic 10 again (like every year since Coach Majerus's kids left). What we don't want in the league is a bunch of teams right at .500 in league play...to maximize bids, the league needs teams that are going to be bad to be awful.

The bottom of the league is great for "depth" purposes, but in more ways than not, their most important function to the league is to lose and lose often. A league with a bunch of .500 teams that doesn't have Football 5 money/cache is going to get killed on bids.
A10La Salle55 likes this.
__________________
Mizzou NCAA Tournament wins since 2003: 4
Mizzou basketball arrests since 3/17/2014: 6
Any questions?
Saint Louis Basketball New Motto--Ford and the Great Rebuild.

KVBL Detroit Pistons

2023 KVBL Champions: St. Louis Warriors (El Shaqtus)
EpicFailGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 02:53 PM   #36 (permalink)
Star
 
paulxu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 4,297
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1165 Post(s)
Re: Conference underperforming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicFailGuy View Post
The bottom of the league is great for "depth" purposes, but in more ways than not, their most important function to the league is to lose and lose often.
You may want that during league play, but I'm pretty sure during OOC that you want the bottom of the league to do real well, to maximize the RPI.
Bona84 and BrownIndians85 like this.
__________________
...he went up late, and I was already up there.
paulxu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 02:55 PM   #37 (permalink)
#RiseoftheBillikens2.0
Photobucket
 
EpicFailGuy's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St. Louis Metro
Posts: 17,616
Mentioned: 459 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1696 Post(s)
Re: Conference underperforming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulxu View Post
You may want that during league play, but I'm pretty sure during OOC that you want the bottom of the league to do real well, to maximize the RPI.
Yeah, I meant lose a lot during league play. OOC, it would be nice if everyone did well...but sometimes, that doesn't happen.
__________________
Mizzou NCAA Tournament wins since 2003: 4
Mizzou basketball arrests since 3/17/2014: 6
Any questions?
Saint Louis Basketball New Motto--Ford and the Great Rebuild.

KVBL Detroit Pistons

2023 KVBL Champions: St. Louis Warriors (El Shaqtus)
EpicFailGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 03:03 PM   #38 (permalink)
Veteran
 
BrownIndians85's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 656 Post(s)
Re: Conference underperforming.

I totally disagree with discounting the bottom half or bottom 4 or whatever. Listen to the talking heads. They may be idiots but clearly the committee is listening to them and not 55 and Epic. They obviously value playing a 10-1 TCU over a 6-5 Siena. Or else, Bona would be in the tourney last year instead of a 7th big 12 team. And that's just one example and not even the best. We're fucked because our bottom 3 are entering conference play with losing records and the B1G, the NBE, the ACC, etc have bottom feeders like BC going 11-3 when we all know they're really no better than a 4-7 GMU.. for example.. don't kill me for that. OOC performance is all that matters and we need to be creating gaudy records. But we aren't and we're losing the PR battle against the NBE, the WCC, the American. Whether or not it's true, fair, or whatever.. you are what your record says you are. Our record says they're better, and the bids will reflect that.
JonBoy likes this.
__________________
http://www.gobonnies.com
BrownIndians85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 03:17 PM   #39 (permalink)
Benchwarmer
 

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Re: Conference underperforming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicFailGuy View Post
As a SLU fan, I can say with almost certainty that Saint Louis University will have little to no effect on the Atlantic 10 again (like every year since Coach Majerus's kids left).
Funny. I think you had a great impact on the league last year.

In fact, I think it can be argued that you're the reason that the league didn't get another bid. Your wins over George Washington and Davidson were devastating to the A10.

If you would have had a few more wins in the OOC schedule it would NOT have had as much of a negative impact on the conference. I believe SLU (5-7 OOC) was significantly better than Boston College, St John's, Missouri, and Washington State but none of those teams had a losing record OOC.
Pinnum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 03:18 PM   #40 (permalink)
Benchwarmer
 

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Re: Conference underperforming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A10La Salle55 View Post
To me though what makes power conferences, power conferences isn't TCU going 10-2 through a cupcake OOC, it's having multiple teams in the top 25 taking out quality opponent after quality opponent.
How do you explain the Pac 12 and the SEC?
Pinnum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 05:05 PM   #41 (permalink)
Benchwarmer
 

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Re: Conference underperforming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownIndians85 View Post
I totally disagree with discounting the bottom half or bottom 4 or whatever. Listen to the talking heads. They may be idiots but clearly the committee is listening to them and not 55 and Epic. They obviously value playing a 10-1 TCU over a 6-5 Siena. Or else, Bona would be in the tourney last year instead of a 7th big 12 team. And that's just one example and not even the best. We're fucked because our bottom 3 are entering conference play with losing records and the B1G, the NBE, the ACC, etc have bottom feeders like BC going 11-3 when we all know they're really no better than a 4-7 GMU.. for example.. don't kill me for that. OOC performance is all that matters and we need to be creating gaudy records. But we aren't and we're losing the PR battle against the NBE, the WCC, the American. Whether or not it's true, fair, or whatever.. you are what your record says you are. Our record says they're better, and the bids will reflect that.
Only 26 programs are undefeated right now.

Isn't it interesting that of the very few programs that are undefeated we find Rutgers (6-0) and Minnesota (6-0) both undefeated after finishing at the bottom of the Big Ten and winless in road games last year.

Curious how Rutgers is rated below Fordham by Kenpom...

It is almost like the Big Ten asked Rutgers to schedule ten games against sub 200 programs and both programs loaded up their schedule with home games to ensure hey had an advantage.
Pinnum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 05:32 PM   #42 (permalink)
Veteran
 
BrownIndians85's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 656 Post(s)
Re: Conference underperforming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinnum View Post
Only 26 programs are undefeated right now.

Isn't it interesting that of the very few programs that are undefeated we find Rutgers (6-0) and Minnesota (6-0) both undefeated after finishing at the bottom of the Big Ten and winless in road games last year.

Curious how Rutgers is rated below Fordham by Kenpom...

It is almost like the Big Ten asked Rutgers to schedule ten games against sub 200 programs and both programs loaded up their schedule with home games to ensure hey had an advantage.
Exactly. And at the end of the year both of them are going to suck just as much as they do today. So the question is.. why aren't we getting the same records against 200+ RPI schedules too? Probably because as A10 teams we have to play road games. And we aren't as good as we think we are. Yes, the bottom of the P5 are overrated but put them and us in a bucket and it's a crapshoot. Neutral court were just as good maybe better but money talks. Rutgers can get you to NJ, Bona can get you to your own gym.
__________________
http://www.gobonnies.com
BrownIndians85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 05:40 PM   #43 (permalink)
#RiseoftheBillikens2.0
Photobucket
 
EpicFailGuy's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St. Louis Metro
Posts: 17,616
Mentioned: 459 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1696 Post(s)
Re: Conference underperforming.

Can you tell I don't handle losing very well?

Coach Ford has some good players coming, so I hope I end up on the other side of this discussion soon.
__________________
Mizzou NCAA Tournament wins since 2003: 4
Mizzou basketball arrests since 3/17/2014: 6
Any questions?
Saint Louis Basketball New Motto--Ford and the Great Rebuild.

KVBL Detroit Pistons

2023 KVBL Champions: St. Louis Warriors (El Shaqtus)
EpicFailGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 05:41 PM   #44 (permalink)
Veteran
 
BrownIndians85's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 656 Post(s)
Re: Conference underperforming.

And on top of my previous post that's why the Bona snub was so so egregious last year. Because even with the RPI game against us, having to play road games, etc.. we still had a 29 RPI, T1 in conference record in the A10, and we got left out for mother fucking Tulsa. And Michigan. We had the deck stacked against us, put up the numbers, and still took the shaft sans lube. As a conference we can't win until we get the gaudy .700+ OOC win %. And then they'll just tell us we played shit teams and still leave us out. We don't have the conference challenge. We don't have big name doubleheader showcases. That's the thing with the big conferences.. they don't play an OOC of cupcakes. It just looks that way. You miss the exempt tourney, the showcase, and the bigX vs. bigY challenge. Makes their 10-2 not as bad as you think. If you haven't guessed yet.. we're up against the stacked deck. Good luck.
ATPTourFan likes this.
__________________
http://www.gobonnies.com
BrownIndians85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 05:50 PM   #45 (permalink)
Benchwarmer
 

Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 152
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 75 Post(s)
Re: Conference underperforming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownIndians85 View Post
That's the thing with the big conferences.. they don't play an OOC of cupcakes. It just looks that way. You miss the exempt tourney, the showcase, and the bigX vs. bigY challenge. Makes their 10-2 not as bad as you think. If you haven't guessed yet.. we're up against the stacked deck. Good luck.
Well, kind of... I mean, yes, they have the challenges and the other events but that is when you see the bottom feeders in the top conferences playing the bottom feeders of another conference and hyping it as if it is a big win because you've heard of the school and they are coming in with a good record.

Wake Forest had a one point win over Rutgers in the Big Ten/ACC Challenge last year. And Rutgers played DePaul (who they beat) in the Gavitt Big Ten/Big East challenge this year.

Those games sound good if don't follow basketball. As long as you're playing teams from 'good conferences' no one cares that they are horrible and if you win the majority of the games OOC you'll be considered good too!
Pinnum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:16 AM.



User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 2002 2013 BasketballBoards.net.
 

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1