BEEZ

Pierce is not a better basketball player than McGrady. Pierce does not pass the ball to make teammates better. He is terribly inconsistent to be considered in Tmac or Kobes class. The thing that seperates TMAC and kobe from Pierce is consistency.

__________________
I have no clue!

aquaitious

Sorry BEEZ, but

He doesn't pass the ball?

Big John

Yes, Pierce is consistently good on defense and always hustles. T-Mac is consistently mediocre on defense and rarely hustles.

Yes, Pierce is a streak shooter. He will have games where he throws up some bricks. McGrady is a great pure jump shooter, better than Pierce.

BEEZ

Aquatious you being a Celtics fan and I watch many Celtic games on League Pass. I consistenly watch Pierce look off teammates and when he passes, not all the time but enough for me to realize that hes not in Tmac's or kobes class. The only consistent receiver of Peirce passes is walker. Buddy Ball at its best

__________________
I have no clue!

mrsister

Pierce had college experience, which I think helped his basketball intelligence. I think T-Mac relies more on raw talent and athleticism. That's not to say T-Mac won't gain the knowledge as he goes along. I just think Pierce has a headstart in that regard.

One difference between Pierce and T-Mac is that Pierce plays alongside Walker so is not the only option (same with Kobe and Shaq). He gets his numbers despite having another All-Star on the team. T-Mac is the main option on his team as long as Hill is injured. Miller is ok, but he's not nearly the same level. Therefore, T-Mac will get his numbers without much competition.

The true test is what happens in the playoffs. T-Mac has to make his team better or they have no chance. One advantage Pierce has already is that his team has made it to the Eastern Conference Finals. The Magic have struggled. Kobe's won three rings, so he has an advantage over both of them. Having Shaq is also a big advantage. No matter how good you are, you're not great until you can get your team to play above themselves when you're around. I think Pierce does that better than T-Mac but still needs to improve. It's questionable whether Kobe makes his teammates better given their poor start to the season. It's as if the rest of the team was waiting for Shaq.

mrsister

I disagree there. Pierce passes to everyone. The only consistent scorer is Walker. When Battie is in the game, he gets a lot of passes from Pierce when he draws defenders in the paint. Baker gets some of those passes, too, but he's usually not ready for them so nothing comes of it. The perimeter shooters (Shammond Williams, Tony Delk, J.R. Bremer) also get a lot of passes from Pierce. It just has to be a good night for them to knock it down. When Pierce passes on the drive or out of a double team, it's a split second decision. He doesn't have time to realize whether it's Walker who he's passing to. If the recipient doesn't finish, it's not his fault. In set plays, he often passes to Walker because that's how O'Brien drew up the play.

Kobe and T-Mac may be better than Pierce, but I don't think it's because they're less selfish.

BEEZ

No I never said it was because I thought he was selfish, I jsut said he isterribly inconsistent which even Celtic fans know. At the same time addressing your point the Cetics are not a better team when they setup in the half-court offense which most of the passing goes on between Pierce and Tmac and also as far as the Celtics have been to the Eastern Conference Finals they have Antoine Walker while McGrady has Miller

__________________
I have no clue!

kcchiefs-fan

Pierce has become a very good passer. The guy can maneuver his way into the lane about as well as anyone in the league, and when he gets there, he either finishes, draws the foul, or passes out to a teammate for the shot, most of the time the three. You're right, however, on him being inconsistent. If he can gain some consistency, then he'll definitely be in Tmac's tier. Although it depends on how they develop, Tmac may get a lot better still, I don't think Pierce will ever be the all-around player Kobe is though. The fact is, there really aren't many noticeable differences on the stat sheet between Tmac and Pierce other than fg%. I don't think he's as good, but he's very close, and could be as good within a year or two (if not better)

Big John

It's amazing to me how all of you focus on one end of the floor. 50% of the game is defense and defense wins championships in basketball just as in every other team sport.

Pierce is a tough defender, who gives 100% all of the time. He commits an occasional dumb foul, but they are hustle fouls. McGrady can't even stop Eric Williams, who posted him up at will the last time the C's played in Orlando.

I'll concede that McGrady is a better offensive player than Pierce, although I think it is closer than some people think. But on defense it is not even close.

I thought this thread was about who was the best basketball player, not who was the best offensive basketball player.

I watched McGrady last night against the Pistons. He had a nice comfortable 35, very smooth, very nice shooting. And the Pistons had a comfortable win. Sure you can blame it on McGrady's supporting cast, which is lousy. But I did not see McGrady trying to stop Rip Hamilton either. He's not good enough to guard a player like Hamilton.

BEEZ

Well I'll put it like this. If you want you can PM me for tapes of TMAC pre back injury where he shut his man down every time. Since he injured his back he doesnt exert himself much on the defensive end. That is your answer right there

__________________
I have no clue!

Big John

I don't care how good he was before he hurt his back. We are talking about right now. If Pierce blows out his knee or something and stops exerting himself on defense, I'll downgrade him as well. No excuses.

BEEZ

I'm not making excuses. Still the fact of the matter is no GM IMO would choose Pierce over McGrady

__________________
I have no clue!

Big John

I would. And so would most coaches, who tend to value defense more than GMs, since their job tenure depends on it. If I used your rationale, Arvydas Sabonis would be the best center in the NBA. Before he hurt his knee, he was as good if not better than Shaq, Yao Ming or anyone else.