[#1AntoineWalkerFan]

Originally Posted by ehmunro

The Celtics are a bad NBDL team without Pierce and an NBA team with him. The Suns are a good NBA team with or without Nash. If he went out for an extended stretch as Pierce did, they wouldn't go 6-18. And this is all irrelevant as Dirk's the NBA anyway. He's carrying a less talented squad a whole lot further.

you think a 30 win team constitutes the celtics being a "nba team"...sorry...i dont...i think they are still a nbdl team being carried by a superstar to those 30 wins but that does not make him mvp...they suck with him and they suck without him how is that mvp???...oh and btw Jason terry and his 21, Jerry stackhouse and his 18 and Devin Harris and his 17 points from last night say hello...and thats not even including all star josh howard who turned an ankle and didnt play the whole game...quite the "less talented" bunch huh?

[P-Dub34]

oh and btw Jason terry and his 21, Jerry stackhouse and his 18 and Devin Harris and his 17 points from last night say hello...and thats not even including all star josh howard who turned an ankle and didnt play the whole game...quite the "less talented" bunch huh?

Worst. Point. Ever.

[whiterhino]

I don't think there was anyone that wanted to make a real trade with us anyway : (

[Zuca]

Honestly, I was hoping to see Walker traded back to Boston (with Doleac) for Wally and Kandi

[#1AntoineWalkerFan]

Originally Posted by P-Dub34

Worst. Point. Ever.

why?...im just saying that the "less talented" mavs are just as talented as the suposedly more talented suns...its not like dirk is playing with scalabrine the kandi man and leon powe...he has a very good supporting cast...as does nash

[P-Dub34]

You made your point by citing point totals for one game. There is no way you even think that's not a flawed example.

[#1AntoineWalkerFan]

Originally Posted by P-Dub34

You made your point by citing point totals for one game. There is no way you even think that's not a flawed example.

you are right and i agree totally...here are hopefully some better numbers as they are season stats...


Josh Howard : 19 pts 7 rebs 2 asts per game

Jason Terry : 16 pts 3 rebs 5 asts per game

Devin Harris : 10 pts 4 rebs 2 asts per game

Jerry Stachouse : 11 pts 2 rebs 2 asts per game


Amare : 20 pts 9 rebs 1 asts per game

Marion : 18 pts 10 rebs 2 asts per game

Barbosa: 17 pts 3 rebs 4 asts per game

Bell : 15 pts 3 rebs 2 asts per game


hey look at that...the suns players have somewhat better numbers...BECAUSE THEY ARE PLAYING WITH STEVE NASH...and the numbers arent even that much better...so the arguement to say dirk is doing soooo much with such a less talented team is ridiculous...switch stackhouse and bell and stackhouse would score more with nash and bell would score less with terry...the numbers are better because of nash...the players on the suns are slightly more talended BUT NOT ENOUGH TO USE THE ARGUEMENT THAT IT MATTERS IN THE MVP RACE...had dirk been on the celtics instead of pierce and he led our bums to a 45-9 record then be my guest and say he has done more with less...but not on his team

[Premier]

Amare plays better without Nash. Marion had some of his best seasons before Phoenix signed with Nash. Barbosa is instant offense off the bench and doesn't spend a good portion of his court time playing alongside Nash.

[#1AntoineWalkerFan]

Originally Posted by Premier

Amare plays better without Nash. Marion had some of his best seasons before Phoenix signed with Nash. Barbosa is instant offense off the bench and doesn't spend a good portion of his court time playing alongside Nash.

as a person who loves stats i would have expected more from you prem...ill give u barbosa but with amare and marion the stats dont lie


amare in his first 2 years with marbury averaged about 15 pts per game while shooting 47% from the field...nice numbers right?? in his first year with nash he averaged 26 points on 56 % from the field...he plays better without nash???

marion in his years with marbury during the 4 full seasons he played had a fg% in order of seasons of 48%, 47%, 45% and 44%...steadily declining each year...as soon as nash shows up, in the last 3 years his fg% has been 48%, 53% and 51%...

so amare increases his ppg by 11 and his fg% by 9% yet he plays better without nash...and marion had some of his "best" seasons before nash yet he is scoring the same without having to take nearly as many shots because nash has helped him increase his fg% by 7 or 8%...umm ok?

[Premier]

You're acting like they're average players when Nash isn't on the court.

'04-'05 season [credit to Diophantos for the calculation]

Amare's play due to Nash

Amare's total per 40 minute numbers:
28.9 pts, 9.9 rbs, 1.8 asts, 1.8 blks, 1.1 stls, 55.9 fg%, 2.6 to's, 11.0 fta's

Amare's per 40 minute numbers with Nash (from 82games.com):
29.5 pts, 10.0 rbs, 1.7 asts, 1.7 blks, 0.9 stls, 58.3 fg%, 2.3 to's, 11.1 fta's

Amare's per 40 minute numbers without Nash - 817 minutes:
27.0 pts, 9.5 rbs, 2.1 asts, 2.1 blks, 1.5 stls, 50.0 fg%, 3.4 to's, 10.8 fta's

Marion's play due to Nash

Marion's total per 40 minute numbers:
20.0 pts, 11.7 rbs, 2.0 asts, 1.5 blks, 2.1 stls, 47.6 fg%, 1.6 to's, 3.5 fta's

Marion's per 40 minute numbers with Nash (from 82games.com):
20.9 pts, 11.7 rbs, 1.7 asts, 1.6 blks, 2.2 stls, 48.1 fg%, 1.3 to's, 3.4 fta's

Marion's per 40 minute numbers without Nash - 880 minutes:
17.5 pts, 11.5 rbs, 2.6 asts, 1.3 blks, 1.7 stls, 45.9 fg%, 2.3 to's, 3.7 fta's

'05-'06 season [credit to Diophantos for the calculation]

Marion's play due to Nash

Marion's total per 40 minute numbers:
21.7 pts, 11.7 rbs, 1.7 asts, 1.7 blks, 2.0 stls, 52.4 fg%, 1.5 to's, 3.7 fta's

Marion's per 40 minute numbers with Nash (from 82games.com):
21.9 pts, 11.4 rbs, 1.8 asts, 1.5 blks, 2.1 stls, 51.4 fg%, 1.5 to's, 3.6 fta's

Marion's per 40 minute numbers without Nash - 688 minutes:
20.9 pts, 12.8 rbs, 1.3 asts, 2.5 blks, 1.6 stls, 56.8 fg%, 1.5 to's, 4.1 fta's

[#1AntoineWalkerFan]

i absolutely HATE these ridiculous stat categories tho...along with efg% and rebrates and whatever other concoctions are out there...prem these numbers are ridiuclous...as PER 40 stats what the numbers are basically doing is taking the production from marion and/or amare when nash is not on the court...which is about 8 to 10 minues per game...and multiplying them by 4 or 5 to get a per 40 average...so if marion goes 3-4 scoring 7 pts without nash in the game thats a PER 40 without nash of 35 ppg with a fg% of 75...average that a few times into any numbers and the per 40 will be ridiculously high...in reality he played a handful of minutes without nash and scored a couple of buckets...all anyone has to do is look at the gigantic leap in production amare and marion took from 03-04 to 04-05...and real stats like ppg and fg%

and im not saying they are average players without nash...im saying amare is a great player that is made into a superstar by nash and marion is a very good player made into a great player by nash

[Premier]

Originally Posted by #1AntoineWalkerFan

as PER 40 stats what the numbers are basically doing is taking the production from marion and/or amare when nash is not on the court.

700-800 minutes is a rather large sample size.

and im not saying they are average players without nash...im saying amare is a great player that is made into a superstar by nash and marion is a very good player made into a great player by nash

Hardly. Nash has a slightly positive impact on Amare and Marion, as shown by those statistics.