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aquaitious · 04-13-2007, 03:10 PM

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Originally Posted by DaBosox

Would it be worth the wait to see what Tony Allen can bring after he gets his knee back together? Around December he was an absolute force, and if it wasn't for that injury he would have probably finished around 19/6/4 along with filthy, dirty, capital D Defense.

Tony Allen is done.

Last time he blew out his knee, it took him a very long time to get back to his rookie year form. If it takes him just as long this time around, he'll be out of the league.

Also, I thought Danny didn't pick up Allen's option...

And now I'm off to read Prem's book a couple of posts up.

**P-Dub34** · 04-13-2007, 04:14 PM

Although overall a fairly good analysis, Prem, you embellished his strengths and minimized his faults.

**Premier** · 04-13-2007, 04:22 PM

Care to explain? Don't take that negatively. I'm curious.

Critically looking at my post, you may say that I overrated his outside shot by calling it "below average to average that he has greatly improved in the last two seasons." I haven't checked the statistics, but his form looks much more fluid now than it did in his rookie season. Also, I did not mention his ball-handling ability which I think is slightly below average to slightly above average, but as a power forward, he will not be handling the ball from twenty-five feet out. The offense runs through Pierce. He's good off-the-ball, so he should be fine.

ATLien · 04-13-2007, 05:04 PM

I would be less than thrilled if Josh Smith was swapped for Al Jefferson. It wouldn't be terrible, but it wouldn't get me very excited either. I think both are pretty close.

**P-Dub34** · 04-13-2007, 06:24 PM

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Care to explain? Don't take that negatively. I'm curious.

No sweat.

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good to great penetration ability

Ehhh... he can get in the lane, but I don't think I'd call him a great penetrator. Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant - those are great penetrators.

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world-class athleticism and finishing ability

Yup.

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good mid-range shot and post game, a below average to average outside shot that he has greatly improved in the last two seasons

Granted, his jumper has improved, but he has a fascination with the three when he really can't shoot it at all. His midrange jumper isn't much better than average. His shot selection is extremely questionable.

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a good to great rebounder

Again, overrating him by calling him great. This is what I mean when I said your analysis wasn't sound, just embellishing some things. Smith will never be as good of a rebounder as Jefferson. Guys like Garnett/Marion/Howard are "great" rebounders. Josh Smith is solid.

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an average passer, a great to tremendous perimeter defender [good to great on-ball defense, tremendous help defense with the ability to disrupt passes due to his long arms, among the best blocking instincts in the league, and above-average to good defensive awareness].

He's a good defensively player, agreed, but he's not as if he's one of the tops in the league. Most of his blocks come on out-of-nowhere swats. He's a good defender, but not able to handle the premier fours in this league.

He's a very good basketball player. That said, I'd rather take my chances with a guy with 20/12 ability in the paint than a guy who will go out and jack up ten threes in one game. It's just my opinion, but I really think you're overrating Josh Smith here. It was a sound analysis, but I just believe you made a lot of his good aspects and not much (or just forgot/ignored) some of the negatives. That's all.

**#1AntoineWalkerFan** · 04-13-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-Dub34

That said, I'd rather take my chances with a guy with 20/12 ability in the paint than a guy who will go out and jack up ten threes in one game.

hmmm...a 6-9 guy who will jack up 10 threes per game...maybe im changing my mind...i think i would like a player like that

ATLien · 04-13-2007, 08:27 PM

P-Dub, a few corrections..

8.6 rpg isn't good? I thought that was pretty good averages for a guy like Smith. Jefferson is averaging more at 10.9 rebounds per game, but I still think 8.6 for a small forward is "good".

And he is only averaging 2.1 three point attempts this year. So not exactly ten threes in one game.

**P-Dub34** · 04-13-2007, 08:49 PM

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8.6 rpg isn't good? I thought that was pretty good averages for a guy like Smith. Jefferson is averaging more at 10.9 rebounds per game, but I still think 8.6 for a small forward is "good".

Well, this would be a good point had I said Josh Smith wasn't a good rebounder. Unfortunately for your argument, I didn't.

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And he is only averaging 2.1 three point attempts this year. So not exactly ten threes in one game.

Sorry, wrong again. On November 11th against Seattle, Smith indeed had ten 3PAs.

This was only once instance, but luckily (or purposely? hmmm) I didn't say it was an average of his. He also shouldn't be shooting the three...really, at all...until he can hit it with any sort of consistency. His shot selection is also very questionable.

ATLien · 04-13-2007, 08:59 PM

Premier called Smith a "good to great" rebounder and you called him "solid". I'm not sure whether or not it is worth arguing over which is which.. and that was just one game out of how many? I probably watch more Hawks games than anyone on this site and it's not like Smith is out there jacking up constant three's, which was the impression I got from reading your post. He rarely shoots from beyond the arc except on rare occasion (he has been averaging 1.8 three point attempts per game since December).

**P-Dub34** · 04-13-2007, 09:09 PM

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Premier called Smith a "good to great" rebounder and you called him "solid". I'm not sure whether or not it is worth arguing over which is which..

I said he wasn't "great," and listed great guys as the traditional top rebounders in the A. He's clearly on a level below those guys. He's a good rebounder. No need to split hairs here.

I'm sorry you got the wrong impression regarding the shooting, but I was merely citing it as an example of how trigger happy he can be.

**Premier** · 04-13-2007, 09:23 PM

Since when his nearly nine rebounds per game not "great" for a small forward? His rebound rate is not that high, but I think he can be a better rebounder than Al because unlike Al, he has the leaping ability to jump up and get rebounds.

**Premier** · 04-13-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-Dub34

Ehhh... he can get in the lane, but I don't think I'd call him a great penetrator. Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant - those are great penetrators.

"Great" to you apparently means among the best in the league. Smith can slash with ease. If he would improve his ballhandling, he could improve his scoring totals by simply beating his man off the dribble and finishing and/or drawing a foul.

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He's a good defensively player, agreed, but he's not as if he's one of the tops in the league. Most of his blocks come on out-of-nowhere swats. He's a good defender, but not able to handle the premier fours in this league.

His blocks are due to blocking instincts and good timing. LeBron is as athletic as they come, but he's not averaging three blocks a game. Smith uses his leaping ability, along with his timing, to block shots. It's not due to luck. He's done this for three seasons now. I agree that he cannot handle the premier power forwards in the league, but he won't have if the Celtics draft Oden [which is why Josh Smith was brought up]. Oden would guard the opposing team's best big man unless that big man generally plays on the perimeter. Because of his lateral quickness, solid defensive awareness, and athleticism, Smith has been one of the league's top perimeter defenders the last two seasons. He will only get better.

I'm still not sold on Al. The timing of his improvement, the holes in his game, and his injury problems are reasons to be afraid.

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