[ehmunro]

Originally Posted by #1AntoineWalkerFan

wally sczerehrjbe and brian scalabrine dont work in the celtics half court set either...because one is always in a suit and one is always playing like crap

the trade in question is NOT the number 2 for marion...it is the number 2, wally and scabs for marion AND the number 4...ALSO, while you guys say you dont trade the 2nd pick, who says we even have the second pick??? there is a statistically BETTER chance that we end up with the 4th or 5th pick than the 1st or 2nd pick...so we could end up with the 4th anyway and still be stuck with wally and scabs...so hypothetically its not as bad as ppl are making it out to be...again im not saying id 100% pull the trigger...but it is not a bad trade AT ALL

If we have the fourth pick, the odds are that Phoenix only has #s 24 & 29 (because Atnalta won a spot at the top) and the deal would be even worse. We can only comment on the trade proposed by Big Amare, Marion & #4/5 for Durant, Szczerbiak, and Mr. Moobs. That's a mediocre trade. They could elect to pursue much better players than Marion with that pick as bait (because Durant would certainly land you Garnett).

Beyond this there are some realities you're going to have to accept if you're going to be a Celtics fan for the remainder of the Grossblech regime. The owners don't care, one way or another, whether or not this team wins. This is an investment for them. If the teams wins and fans show up to watch, they're happy. If the team loses and fans still pony up money to watch the games, they're happy. Doesn't matter to them. They're marketers, and they need product to market. Shawn Marion can't be marketed effectively, while Kevin Durant is marketing gold. Ergo they're not swapping the one for the other. If Phoenix were willing to deal Amare for Durant and Wally Szczerbiak Szczuperstar, I'm sure Boston would be all ears. But for a great power 3 and garbageman? No. There's no marketing moolah in putbacks.

If they're picking fourth or fifth, you can expect them to either go for the marketing jackpot (the BFCD) or trade down for a name vet and a player that Danny loves (like say, Sacramento for Bibby & #10). Trading down to 24 & 29 (from 4/5) makes no financial sense to the owners. I agree, it might help make the team a winner again, but winning isn't at the top of the owners' list of priorities. It's eighth and sinking fast. Right now, as fans, the best we have to hope for is a winning lottery ticket, because that's really the only sure way to return this squad to the top. A competent front office would also help, but again, winning isn't at the top of the priority list; so rather than choosing on the basis of competence, the owners chose someone relatively bulletproof due to his association with the '86 Celtics, and who was great at the PR end of the job. As long as the tickets are selling, and the owners are turning a healthy profit every year, things will remain as they are.

[aquaitious]

Originally Posted by #1AntoineWalkerFan

the trade in question is NOT the number 2 for marion...it is the number 2, wally and scabs for marion AND the number 4...

What does that do? Fix another one of Ainge's mistakes?

Having to constantly correct your mistakes, and losing on potentially ROY's and Franchise Players, is not something the Celtics would want to do.

Originally Posted by #1AntoineWalkerFan

ALSO, while you guys say you dont trade the 2nd pick, who says we even have the second pick???

It all started when you quoted Amareca.

Originally Posted by #1AntoineWalkerFan

there is a statistically BETTER chance that we end up with the 4th or 5th pick than the 1st or 2nd pick...so we could end up with the 4th anyway and still be stuck with wally and scabs...so hypothetically its not as bad as ppl are making it out to be...again im not saying id 100% pull the trigger...but it is not a bad trade AT ALL

No one said it's a bad trade, but it's a trade no one would do.

Marion is an all-star in this league, Wally and Scabs are injured and suck, respectively.

But to cancle out a trade we ****ed up on a few years ago, and once again lose a good player in the process, is a bad thing.

[aquaitious]

Originally Posted by ehmunro

you can expect them to either go for the marketing jackpot (the BFCD)

BFCD, absolutely love it!

[DaBosox]

Originally Posted by ehmunro

If we have the fourth pick, the odds are that Phoenix only has #s 24 & 29 (because Atnalta won a spot at the top) and the deal would be even worse. We can only comment on the trade proposed by Big Amare, Marion & #4/5 for Durant, Szczerbiak, and Mr. Moobs. That's a mediocre trade. They could elect to pursue much better players than Marion with that pick as bait (because Durant would certainly land you Garnett).

Beyond this there are some realities you're going to have to accept if you're going to be a Celtics fan for the remainder of the Grossblech regime. The owners don't care, one way or another, whether or not this team wins. This is an investment for them. If the teams wins and fans show up to watch, they're happy. If the team loses and fans still pony up money to watch the games, they're happy. Doesn't matter to them. They're marketers, and they need product to market. Shawn Marion can't be marketed effectively, while Kevin Durant is marketing gold. Ergo they're not swapping the one for the other. If Phoenix were willing to deal Amare for Durant and Wally Szczerbiak Szczuperstar, I'm sure Boston would be all ears. But for a great power 3 and garbageman? No. There's no marketing moolah in putbacks.

If they're picking fourth or fifth, you can expect them to either go for the marketing jackpot (the BFCD) or trade down for a name vet and a player that Danny loves (like say, Sacramento for Bibby & #10). Trading down to 24 & 29 (from 4/5) makes no financial sense to the owners. I agree, it might help make the team a winner again, but winning isn't at the top of the owners' list of priorities. It's eighth and sinking fast. Right now, as fans, the best we have to hope for is a winning lottery ticket, because that's really the only sure way to return this squad to the top. A competent front office would also help, but again, winning isn't at the top of the priority list; so rather than choosing on the basis of competence, the owners chose someone relatively bulletproof due to his association with the '86 Celtics, and who was great at the PR end of the job. As long as the tickets are selling, and the owners are turning a healthy profit every year, things will remain as they are.

As much as I hate the truth you speak, you're spot on. We better get the numbers 1 or 2 otherwise we should reload for the 2013 draft. Optimistically.

The thought of Delonte's idol in Bibby in green made me throw up a little. Do we really need another undersized 2?

Only 12 more days and I can finally decide whether or not I'm going to watch the C's for the next year.

Otherwise Aqua's enjoyment of the BFCD tag will be the high point of the 2008 season. (I love that one too)

[ehmunro]

Originally Posted by DaBosox

The thought of Delonte's idol in Bibby in green made me throw up a little. Do we really need another undersized 2?

Right now Wally's bid the price of an impact vet up (because Wally is one of those "What are you willing to pay me to take him off your hands?"-level players) to levels that DJ DAingermouth & Gyp are uncomfortable with. If Boston can't make a deal for an impact vet on draft day, I can see Danny making a temp trade for an easier to deal vet. A trade down that lands him someone like Al Thornton, and a player that still has positive value (even if it's not much) would make it easier on him in future trades (though I don't think Bibby's shelf life has a lot of years on it). I wouldn't call it a great deal, but Danny's made a number of these "trades to help me make later trades" deals before, so I wouldn't be shocked by it. Two other scenarios I could see would be swaps with Charlotte for Knight & Wallace or Chicago for Hinrich (although that trade is probably way too complex to happen).

Originally Posted by DaBosox

Otherwise Aqua's enjoyment of the BFCD tag will be the high point of the 2008 season. (I love that one too)

We need to get Bob & AC posting here, damnit.

[DaBosox]

Originally Posted by ehmunro

Right now Wally's bid the price of an impact vet up (because Wally is one of those "What are you willing to pay me to take him off your hands?"-level players) to levels that DJ DAingermouth & Gyp are uncomfortable with. If Boston can't make a deal for an impact vet on draft day, I can see Danny making a temp trade for an easier to deal vet. A trade down that lands him someone like Al Thornton, and a player that still has positive value (even if it's not much) would make it easier on him in future trades (though I don't think Bibby's shelf life has a lot of years on it). I wouldn't call it a great deal, but Danny's made a number of these "trades to help me make later trades" deals before, so I wouldn't be shocked by it. Two other scenarios I could see would be swaps with Charlotte for Knight & Wallace or Chicago for Hinrich (although that trade is probably way too complex to happen).

I agree that he has a history of making these types of trades, but my hope is that as the situation changes he can learn that different types of trades are needed. Like the Joe Johnson for Rodgers and Delk trade back in the day....we were contenders that year and made the ECF because someone decided to step up and put some steel ones on the table. In other words making a risky trade when the pieces start coming together instead of saving a couple of dimes in future contracts.

Originally Posted by ehmunro

We need to get Bob & AC posting here, damnit.

Agreed too...they've forgotten more basketball than I'll ever know. Too bad LCC has crickets these days.

[ehmunro]

Originally Posted by DaBosox

I agree that he has a history of making these types of trades, but my hope is that as the situation changes he can learn that different types of trades are needed. Like the Joe Johnson for Rodgers and Delk trade back in the day....we were contenders that year and made the ECF because someone decided to step up and put some steel ones on the table. In other words making a risky trade when the pieces start coming together instead of saving a couple of dimes in future contracts.

That trade always infuriates me, because Bryan Colangelo said later that they would have accepted Brown instead of Johnson, but the Pilsbury Draftboy wanted to keep "his guy". If they'd traded Brown instead, and had Johnson to spell Pierce, then Pierce would still have had gas left in the tank at the end of game 4, and the Celtics might have made the NBA Finals, and Steve Belkin might have paid for a contending squad, and we wouldn't be in this mess today. (Larry might not be a great GM, but he's better than Danny or Kevin.)

Originally Posted by DaBosox

Agreed too...they've forgotten more basketball than I'll ever know. Too bad LCC has crickets these days.

I just posted a thread over there to see if we could grab a few of them. This place isn't as active as C-Blog, but the retard ratio is far lower here. Importing more intelligent posters could only help.

[DaBosox]

Originally Posted by ehmunro

(Larry might not be a great GM, but he's better than Danny or Kevin.)

Reminds me of the south park where they have to vote between a turd sandwich and a giant D. (Apologies Aqua, I just have a hard time writing certain words at work...which is why I masked the filter the other day.)

Originally Posted by ehmunro

I just posted a thread over there to see if we could grab a few of them. This place isn't as active as C-Blog, but the retard ratio is far lower here. Importing more intelligent posters could only help.

I saw that. Nice work there, and I'm already looking forward to AC or FBB's first post here followed by a nitpicky post on a non-issue by some Knicks fan followed by AC unleashing the basketball knowledge equivalent of thermonuclear war. I'm already giddy.

About the Marion and # 4 for #2, Moobsziak: That trade would destroy the fans in Boston after we're rewarded for an awful season with a two dimes for a quarter trade. The press might finally turn on Danny, and that can't happen.

PS, I'm glad Shira is out there. She seems to be the most objective of the lot.

[silverpaw1786]

Originally Posted by Amareca

Please you would get a much better player than Shawn Marion nevermind Al Horford or whoever the pick at #4 would be for Kevin Durant? Yeah right, maybe you are dreaming but nobody is going to trade Lebron James, Dwayne Wade etc for #2 and your bad contracts.

Isn't this what we would hope Kevin Durant could become?


Marion has averaged 22 pts /12 reb /53%fg / 81%ft / 1.7 blk / 2 stl and 17.5 pts / 10 reb / 53% fg / 81% ft / 1.5 blk / 2 stl the last two seasons.

[aquaitious]

Originally Posted by silverpaw1786

Isn't this what we would hope Kevin Durant could become?


Marion has averaged 22 pts /12 reb /53%fg / 81%ft / 1.7 blk / 2 stl and 17.5 pts / 10 reb / 53% fg / 81% ft / 1.5 blk / 2 stl the last two seasons.

Durant is not a project. Marion is not a franchise player.

[Jenness]

Originally Posted by silverpaw1786

Isn't this what we would hope Kevin Durant could become?


Marion has averaged 22 pts /12 reb /53%fg / 81%ft / 1.7 blk / 2 stl and 17.5 pts / 10 reb / 53% fg / 81% ft / 1.5 blk / 2 stl the last two seasons.

No, I think there are higher hopes for Durant. Something like 28+ pts/10 reb/8-9 fta per game/1.5 blocks in addition to being a team's number one option and crunch time scorer. One downside with him I think is his passing. For the most part, he shot whenever he touched the ball. There were games when he attempted something like 45% of his team's shots. Of course that's not going to fly in the nba. It's still to be seen whether he has the court IQ to manage his game within the flow of his teammates.

[Causeway]

3 days.