Thread Tools

Display Modes

kukoc4ever · 06-08-2005, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullsville

"Skiles and Glass were stunned at the way Jerry wanted to do business."

Yeah, what's with that? Had they never heard of JR before Skiles signed here? How stupid could they be to not know JR's reputation?

Not just that. The leaks. The lack of flexibility. The childish power-plays. The hatchet jobs in the media. (all before last night)

We'll never know what exactly was going on behind the scenes, as per usual. But, as usual, a Reinsdorf negotiation for someone wanting a big paycheck was publicly acrimonious and it nearly blew up.

yodurk · 06-08-2005, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukoc4ever

Most of the major decisions that Pax/Williams have to make have financial implications though. But yah... you don't hear him talking much about trading player X for player Y... and that's a good thing. Also, that line from Jerry gets him off the hook on answering personnel questions.

When he does get involved... things get confrontational and ugly pretty quick.

I have a hard time seeing how people really blame Skiles for this... when so many of the Bulls/Sox negotiations have gone this way (ugly, leaks, bitterly confrontational) over the last decade or two. Skiles and Glass were stunned at the way Jerry wanted to do business. That was pretty clear. In the end… Jerry got his wish…. Skiles and Jerry did the deal themselves over the phone. Hooray.

I see why people don't like Reinsdorf, because there's precedent for his policies making things difficult when the dreaded contract negotiations come up. But I pinned much of this on Skiles because I felt that by spurning the offer on the table (which was a good offer, and very close numbers-wise to what he accepted), he'd be turning his back on Pax, on his players, and the fans (which would be us). ScottMay asked yesterday why the most adamant Skiles supporters have suddenly "bailed" on him...on the contrary, it felt like it was him bailing on us after being so appreciative of his coaching abilties all season. And for what, because of one solitary man who isn't giving him respect, when in fact there's a whole city worth of people giving him plenty of it? That's where I had a problem with Skiles in this situation. But fortunately, Skiles acknowledged he was being a little stubborn and he cleared the air with Papa Reinsdorf. Everyone sounds happy, and I feel alot better about the "tone" of this off-season...now that things have stabilized, it makes the franchise look like a really good situation for our free agents to return to.

bullsville · 06-08-2005, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kukoc4ever

Because even if you have to pry them from his vice-like hands with a crowbar... the checks he does write still has lots of 0s at the end.

So why don't they go work elsewhere? There are 29 more teams out there, why work for a guy who is so difficult?

All I'm saying is that if JR were so bad, he'd never get any good "employees" to stay here- they have 29 other options.

I have a feeling he's not that much worse (if at all) than any of the 28 non-Cuban owners in the NBA, or people would never stick around, never re-sign, never be here long enough for the Bulls to be successful.

**johnston797** · 06-08-2005, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullsville

So why don't they go work elsewhere? There are 29 more teams out there, why work for a guy who is so difficult?

Some left. Phil Jackson took that option. But why worry about running arguably the greatest coach of all time out of town when you can bring in fresh meat like Floyd, Cartwright and Skiles.

I fail to see how coming to an agreement completely validates how Reinsdorf pushed this situation to the brink.

yodurk · 06-08-2005, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnston797

Some left. Phil Jackson took that option. But why worry about running arguably the greatest coach of all time out of town when you can bring in fresh meat like Floyd, Cartwright and Skiles.

I fail to see how coming to an agreement completely validates how Reinsdorf pushed this situation to the brink.

People seem to be pinning this on Reinsdorf out of convenience, and because of past instances he's an easy target. But it's become clear to me that Keith Glass deserves more blame than anyone why it got pushed to the brink...too much rushing to conclusions and misunderstandings happened here. Skiles should be lauded for mending the situation. I've made the mistake the past few days of blending Skiles and his agent into one entity, when in fact Skiles was not the one speaking out of line.

bullsville · 06-08-2005, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnston797

Some left. Phil Jackson took that option. But why worry about running arguably the greatest coach of all time out of town when you can bring in fresh meat like Floyd, Cartwright and Skiles.

Yeah, Phil Jackson left after 9 years, I'm pretty sure that when he was hired in 1989, he didn't have a 9-year contract.

MJ left after 14 years in the Bulls organization, I know for a fact that he didn't sign a 14-year deal when he came into the league.

You would think the GOOT could do better than to work for an a-hole like JR?

Quote:

I fail to see how coming to an agreement completely validates how Reinsdorf pushed this situation to the brink.

All this validates is that JR haters will hate him blindly, no matter what.

"That a-hole is letting Skiles walk? I hate him."

"What, he re-signed Skiles? Well, uh, um, I hate the way the negotiations went!"

"He's still a bad owner and a bad person.

And a bad negotiator.

And a bad dresser.

And a bad tipper.

And he has bad breath"

The man was the owner when we won 6 Titles, yet people still hated him. I'm pretty sure that 6 more Titles won't make those people stop hating him.

I guess it's not business, it's personal?

fl_flash · 06-08-2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnston797

Some left. Phil Jackson took that option. But why worry about running arguably the greatest coach of all time out of town when you can bring in fresh meat like Floyd, Cartwright and Skiles.

I fail to see how coming to an agreement completely validates how Reinsdorf pushed this situation to the brink.

So Skiles, and moreso his agent, had absolutely nothing to do with things getting to the place that they had? I think its a cop-out to pin how this went down completely on Reinsdorf or on Skiles and his agent for that matter. There's usually two sides to a story and the truth located somewhere in the middle. I'd think this situation is a text book example of such a dynamic.

**johnston797** · 06-08-2005, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fl_flash

So Skiles, and moreso his agent, had absolutely nothing to do with things getting to the place that they had? I think its a cop-out to pin how this went down completely on Reinsdorf or on Skiles and his agent for that matter. There's usually two sides to a story and the truth located somewhere in the middle. I'd think this situation is a text book example of such a dynamic.

I agree with this. I just find the school of thought that "the chairman can do no wrong and is completely validated" simplistic, facile and wrong-headed.

Same with the "Ronnie-come-lately after battle is over and scorn all with a valid opinion during said battle".

The way I look at it is this. If we came within a 40% of a nuclear meltdown but trouble was averted, would you praise the government for saving $4M on a part that would have made it a meltdown much less likely.

And I do believe that it wasn't just money just like Skiles said. Skiles went public with his gripping and I called him a hypocrite. But Reinsdorf fired the first shots with his demand that he doens't negociate with an agent and his "sucked the joy" out comment.

bullsville · 06-08-2005, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnston797

I agree with this. I just find the school of thought that "the chairman can do no wrong and is completely validated" simplistic and moronic.

You're right, it's just as simplistic and moronic as the "JR gets little or no credit for the 6 titles" school of thought.

In honesty, I'm somewhere in between, and I'm sure you are too. But hey, if we were all right in the middle, this board would be as big a ghost town as Comiskey on a weeknight.

yodurk · 06-08-2005, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnston797

I agree with this. I just find the school of thought that "the chairman can do no wrong and is completely validated" simplistic and moronic.

I don't think anybody has said anything to suggest that...I, for one, agree with you here. And if Reinsdorf had completely low-balled Skiles with, say, a 3-year $10M extension, then I wouldn't blame Skiles and his agent for going berserk and cutting off negotiations. But such was not the case. Fact of the matter is that Pax approached Skiles and said that Chairman Reinsdorf has allowed me to offer you what we think is a nice sized contract extension, $17M over 4 years, $14M of which is guarenteed. So then Skiles and Glass say, how about $20M over 4 years? And when that is turned down, (and here's where I'm speculating a little), Keith Glass flew off the handle because Reinsdorf doesn't want to deal with him directly...and that's where it seems things got shaky. There's blame to go around, in other words

Thread Tools Display Modes

Thread Tools

Display Modes