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**jnrjr79** · 05-13-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebizkit69u

My question then is why does it take the Bulls half a freakin season to either sign a player or a coach but it takes other teams mere weeks?

Rick Carlisle was supposed to be the next Bulls head coach from day one that Skiles was fired and yet he ends up with the Mavs..

It just looks like we arent a very smart or organized franchise.

Eh, this isn't really true. The plan was always to wait until after the season to find a permanent replacement for Skiles. You may not like the plan, but it wasn't dawdling.

What seems to be more and more the case as information leaks out is not that the Bulls didn't move quickly enough, but rather they didn't make D'Antoni FEEL as good as NY did.

popeye12 · 05-13-2008, 01:56 PM

We didnt make him feel good by telling him that his coaching style is perfect - they were honest stating that they wanted a solid assistant coach with a great defense mind - if that hurts his feelings, oh well i'm sure the 6mil a year would have made up for it.

thebizkit69u · 05-13-2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnrjr79

Eh, this isn't really true. The plan was always to wait until after the season to find a permanent replacement for Skiles. You may not like the plan, but it wasn't dawdling.

What seems to be more and more the case as information leaks out is not that the Bulls didn't move quickly enough, but rather they didn't make D'Antoni FEEL as good as NY did.

I hope your wrong, I hope Pax's plan wasnt to let the best coaches sign elsewhere and wait until pre draft workouts before hiring a coach. One thing Pax must do is sign a coach before draft workouts.

**jnrjr79** · 05-13-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebizkit69u

I hope your wrong, I hope Pax's plan wasnt to let the best coaches sign elsewhere and wait until pre draft workouts before hiring a coach. One thing Pax must do is sign a coach before draft workouts.

That's not what I said, and I'm pretty sure you know that.

I just said the plan was to wait until after the season to pick up a coach. It does not seem at all clear that Carlisle was ever a top candidate. It's perfectly clear now, though, they lost out on their "guy" and have to move on to backup plans.

**johnston797** · 05-13-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnrjr79

What seems to be more and more the case as information leaks out is not that the Bulls didn't move quickly enough, but rather they didn't make D'Antoni FEEL as good as NY did.

Seems pretty clear to me that by moving so slowly the Bulls didn't make D'Antoni FEEL good about the situation in Chicago.

**jnrjr79** · 05-14-2008, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnston797

Seems pretty clear to me that by moving so slowly the Bulls didn't make D'Antoni FEEL good about the situation in Chicago.

Actually, that seems to be exactly what is not the case, if you read anything D'Antoni has said. The speed at which they moved seems to have been entirely irrelevant. And, you'll note, Pax was on a plane to meet him at the earliest possible minute. What seems to be the problem is the Knicks expressed adoration for the guy with no apparent reservations, while the Bulls wanted to grill him about about defensive philosophy and such. D'Antoni got the feeling the Bulls had reservations and the Knicks didn't.

**johnston797** · 05-14-2008, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnrjr79

Actually, that seems to be exactly what is not the case, if you read anything D'Antoni has said. The speed at which they moved seems to have been entirely irrelevant. And, you'll note, Pax was on a plane to meet him at the earliest possible minute. What seems to be the problem is the Knicks expressed adoration for the guy with no apparent reservations, while the Bulls wanted to grill him about about defensive philosophy and such. D'Antoni got the feeling the Bulls had reservations and the Knicks didn't.

I read it all & D'Antoni has said it comes down to his "gut" feel. I would suggest you re-read JR's account to KC. JR comes across as a major jerk. And part of it is the speed at which he is operating.

For instance,

Quote:

"...I said if we need to get something done this weekend we shouldn't even bother talking because it will take longer than that," Reinsdorf said.

I guess if MD "misled" then JR is a ******** liar because the Bulls came back that weekend, the next day, with an offer. Put MD's gut had written off that fool by then.

**jnrjr79** · 05-14-2008, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnston797

I read it all & D'Antoni has said it comes down to his "gut" feel. I would suggest you re-read JR's account to KC. JR comes across as a major jerk. And part of it is the speed at which he is operating.

For instance,

I guess if MD "misled" then JR is a ******** liar because the Bulls came back that weekend, the next day, with an offer. Put MD's gut had written off that fool by then.

I'm absolutely with you that JR comes across as a jerk and that may well be what turned D'Antoni off. But again, D'Antoni has clearly indicated it wasn't due to speed. Yes, I suppose it's jerky that JR wanted to take time to put together an offer, but D'Antoni has repeatedly said he asked the Bulls not to put a number on any offer, because he didn't want to choose based on money. It's clear he chose because JR and/or Pax didn't give him the warm and fuzzy feeling he got from NY. This means he either (1) didn't like one or both guys on a personal level and/or (2) didn't get the impression that one or both guys had confidence in him.

We know #2 is true. D'Antoni said he felt the Bulls were trying to convince themselves he was the right fit, while NY was smitten with him from the get-go. We don't know whether D'Antoni just plain thought either JR or Pax was a jerk, and it's unlikely D'Antoni would say so even if he did.

None of this, though, amounts to the Bulls not moving fast enough. Pax was the first to meet with D'Antoni by all accounts and was quickly convinced he was the guy for the team. D'Antoni said he was sure he could have the Bulls job if he wanted it, though with perhaps certain additional requirements like hiring a defensive coach and big man's coach. NY just said "we'll take you no matter what." Unconditional love.

What I also think is an element that isn't focused upon nearly enough is JR's refusal to meet with coach's agents. It's asinine. I understand perhaps wanting to speak with the coach to get a feel for him, but refusing to negotiate the terms of the deal through an agent? This isn't 1957. The guy has every right to use an agent to negotiate on his behalf, and refusing to speak to the agent has the potential to be hugely off-putting.

So, anyway, I feel like there are myriad factors to look at, but it seems like the speed of the process was either not a factor at all or not one of the major factors.

**johnston797** · 05-14-2008, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnrjr79

...but D'Antoni has repeatedly said he asked the Bulls not to put a number on any offer, because he didn't want to choose based on money. It's clear he chose because JR and/or Pax didn't give him the warm and fuzzy feeling he got from NY. This means he either (1) didn't like one or both guys on a personal level and/or (2) didn't get the impression that one or both guys had confidence in him.

D'Antoni said he didn't want to get an offer from the Bulls *at the point* in which he decided to go with the Knicks. I agree that once he decided to go with the Knicks, speed was not an issue. But at the time of the Bulls last meeting - a week after starting the process - the Bulls were still not ready to make an offer, D'Antoni presumptively hadn't made up his mind, and it's far from clear that speed wasn't an issue.

By the way, you are missing #3 & #4. (3) D'Antoni didn't get the impression Bulls had the type of organization in place to compete for a championship. (4) D'Antoni didn't have confidence in Paxson and/or Reinsdorf.

**Da Grinch** · 05-14-2008, 09:05 AM

from chris sheridan's espn article

Quote:

D'Antoni also said the overriding reason he chose New York over Chicago was that New York was where he and his wife would prefer to live. He also said he did not remember telling Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf "I don't want to coach the Knicks" as Reinsdorf alleges he did, although D'Antoni noted that they talked about a lot of things over the course of their three-hour meeting.

Quote:

"I said, 'I think Chicago wants me, I know New York does, so where do we want to live?' We decided New York," D'Antoni said. "I did feel [Walsh] came to get me, and I liked that. When you're getting divorced by somebody, it feels good to be liked."

hope that answers why D'Antoni decided on nyc.

it wasn't money, so he didn't need Reinsdorf to bid.

the bulls negotiated , the knicks recruited ...knicks win. Its not the end of the world but another telltale sign of how the bulls do business.

**johnston797** · 05-14-2008, 09:19 AM

D'Antoni is a slick guy and picked the best opportunity. He is not going to burn any bridges and act like a spurned lover ala Paxson and Reinsdorf. Hence, "best place to live" vs. "unfair" & "mislead". LOL at D'Antoni's agent saying Paxson did a "magnificent job" in trying to land D'Antoni.

I still have seen a good spin for the rumor after rumor that D'Antoni preferred Chicago and Chicago's roster earlier in the process. Was that completely untrue? If not, what happened?

Big picture: Bulls management yet again fail to seal a deal in which they appeared to have all of the advantages.

thebizkit69u · 05-14-2008, 09:49 AM

Why the hell would they rather live in that Crap hole known as NY over Chicago? I guess I'm biased but I have been to NYC and trust me I would not be sad to never visit that place again but I guess if your Rich NYC is a great place to live.

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