Vinny is the fall guy, on his way out? - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

yodurk · 04-10-2010, 07:34 AM

Today's Sun Times:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baske...041010.article

Quote:

The 6-11 center has been on a steady-rising minutes limit since returning from a three-week stint on the sideline because of plantar fasciitis of the left foot. The 35 minutes and 51 seconds Noah played against New Jersey is the most he’s seen since his return on Mar. 28.

“He has a 35-minute limit, so I had to get him out of the game,” Del Negro said.

But general manager Gar Forman said that Del Negro could have played Noah more.

Quote:

It may have been a simple misunderstanding or Del Negro may be gun shy about extending Noah’s minutes because several people in the organization were upset that he played Noah 27 minutes in an overtime win against the Portland Trail Blazers back on Feb. 26 when the limit was supposed to be 20. Noah’s foot flared up after that game and then had to sit out for three weeks.

yodurk · 04-10-2010, 07:40 AM

The Real GM board is on fire about this move by Del Negro.

I think given the circumstances as a near must win game, it was absolutely a mistake by Del Negro. You have to realize that Noah's doing ok out there and take the risk playing him more (I'm sure Noah would've been ok with it). It would've been a non-issue if we won the game, but we didn't so Vinny now faces the music.

Granted, I have been one of Vinny's bigger supporters; or rather, I have been in favor of giving him a fair chance. As such, I think most of his mistakes are severely micro-analyzed and are trivial.

This one, however, is a clear mistake and I am sensing Bulls management are using this to make Vinny the fall guy for not making the playoffs.

I kinda feel bad for the guy, I mean people make mistakes, but then again people aren't very forgiving in this business so you can't let these things happen.

Anyway, I think if Bulls don't make the playoffs, this mistake will cost Vinny his job and the Bulls will look to someone like Byron Scott to take over (Scott btw is one of the few free agent coaches I like -- please say NO to those morons Van Gundy and Avery Johnson).

**narek** · 04-10-2010, 09:12 AM

Huh. I wonder if someone will ask about it before tomorrow's game?

I don't think Vinnie's a horrible coach, but then I have a different perspective. I watched all the horrible ooaching the Bucks had before they hired Skiles.

yodurk · 04-10-2010, 10:27 AM

He's really not a horrible coach, if he was then this thing would've fallen apart long ago.

There are things I like about him.

But, the Bulls management always does their best to keep the blame away from themselves. I think their whole attitude all along is to pin things on the players or coaches when things go bad. (Which sometimes is justified, but certainly not all the time)

In this case, Vinny made a clearly bad mistake. If the Bulls don't make the playoffs, then management and fans alike can point to this NJ game and say, "win that, and we're in". And why didn't we? Vinny Del Negro.

The issue I have there is this team's problems go deeper than that, and yet society has conditioned us to identify who is to blame. In this case, I believe Del Negro is the fall guy if Bulls don't make the playoffs. And this is the excuse that Gar and co have been looking for to can Del Negro to find a more marketable option.

For the record, I'm fine w/ a coaching change. I've always liked Byron Scott, and he'd fit well here. Guess I just feel bad for how Del Negro is treated; he seems like a good guy and works hard. Rose, Noah, and Deng have found their stride under his watch.

It's a tough business, this NBA.

BULLHITTER · 04-10-2010, 11:35 AM

typical bulls spin, making vdn the fall guy, but the REALITY is had derrick rose stayed in front of his man, courtney lee on his right-handed drive to his RIGHT, miller doesn't have to move over into position to cover, and lopez doesn't get free on the baseline, end of game.

the resolve of this leaderless team is epic (6 year vets can't nurse a 7 point lead in ot?), they've wet themselves so many times, wilted under bright lights, stained themselves when what was needed was simply energy. i saw the stats, and boy are they sure misleading. deng 19 points, hirnich 13/9/9, rose 25 (he might've gave up more)......did they play good?

now with the WHOLE SEASON on the line, they've got ONE MORE chance to backpeddle into the playoffs. i'm predicting tomorrow's game already as a classic, win or lose; for the record, on the road, my money's on the guys not showing up.

and JR's going to pay somebody 80-100 mil to add to this malaise-infected bunch?

i'm going to laugh my *** off at the pr spin the bulls are concocting for THIS offseason.

**truebluefan** · 04-10-2010, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yodurk

He's really not a horrible coach, if he was then this thing would've fallen apart long ago.

There are things I like about him.

But, the Bulls management always does their best to keep the blame away from themselves. I think their whole attitude all along is to pin things on the players or coaches when things go bad. (Which sometimes is justified, but certainly not all the time)

In this case, Vinny made a clearly bad mistake. If the Bulls don't make the playoffs, then management and fans alike can point to this NJ game and say, "win that, and we're in". And why didn't we? Vinny Del Negro.

The issue I have there is this team's problems go deeper than that, and yet society has conditioned us to identify who is to blame. In this case, I believe Del Negro is the fall guy if Bulls don't make the playoffs. And this is the excuse that Gar and co have been looking for to can Del Negro to find a more marketable option.

For the record, I'm fine w/ a coaching change. I've always liked Byron Scott, and he'd fit well here. Guess I just feel bad for how Del Negro is treated; he seems like a good guy and works hard. Rose, Noah, and Deng have found their stride under his watch.

It's a tough business, this NBA.

No doubt management is making Vinny the fall guy. He is on his way out.

Good post.

**narek** · 04-11-2010, 05:01 AM

McGraw has a blog about the whole thing today:

Quote:

Apparently, that word was slow to move across the Bulls bench. Noah checked out with 48.1 seconds left in the fourth quarter, just after tipping in the go-ahead basket. From that point, he played only a 12.4-second stretch of the first overtime.

Noah entered the game just after the crucial missed foul call, when Nets guard Courtney Lee grabbed Rose’s arm from behind, but the referees decided Rose lost the ball out of bounds.

On the defensive end, New Jersey got a lob pass to center Brook Lopez. Noah blocked Lopez’ first shot attempt, then was called for a foul, which was tough to spot on the replay. As Lopez drained 2 tying free throws, Noah checked back out and didn’t return.

Could he have made a difference? We’ll never know, but it’s hard to believe Del Negro thought the minute count was to tight, he couldn’t use Noah for the final 48 seconds of the fourth quarter.

http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/3800

**Dornado** · 04-11-2010, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike McGraw

Could he have made a difference? We’ll never know, but it’s hard to believe Del Negro thought the minute count was to tight, he couldn’t use Noah for the final 48 seconds of the fourth quarter.

Would it kill them to hire an editor for their 'sports blogs'...? What the hell is that sentence supposed to mean? Is the "to" in "to tight" supposed to be a "so"? or a "too?"?

yodurk · 04-11-2010, 01:01 PM

Regardless of this whole thing, I definitely can say that I'm not looking forward to facing Brook Lopez for the next 10 years. He's really hurt us in his young career, and did it yet again in not one, but two critical spots (clutch free throws and tip-in).

What I wouldn't give to pair him and Noah up in a Bulls uniform together.

**mvP to the Wee** · 04-11-2010, 02:27 PM

Vinny is most definitely on his way out.

TwinkieTowers · 04-11-2010, 03:54 PM

Vinny is only a fall guy because he's too much of a professional to call management out. I'd chuckle if Reinsdorf fired Pax and made Vinny the defacto GM.

**Dornado** · 04-11-2010, 08:24 PM

So Vinny must have coached a hell of a game tonight, huh?

caseyrh · 04-12-2010, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dornado

So Vinny must have coached a hell of a game tonight, huh?

In the last 10 games VDN has been a great coach 6 times and a horrible coach 4 times.

yodurk · 04-12-2010, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dornado

So Vinny must have coached a hell of a game tonight, huh?

Indeed!

Although, I am still convinced, at this point, that Vinny's job is linked to whether the Bulls make the playoffs. The Noah benching thing gave management just enough ammo to make a case to the fan base. No playoffs = blame Vinny for his mistake in NJ, or so is their stance.

Make the playoffs, and I think all is forgiven as it's a moot point.

04-10-2010, 07:40 AM	#2 (permalink)
yodurk All-Star Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 9,385 Rep Power: 1005485	Re: Vinny is the fall guy, on his way out? The Real GM board is on fire about this move by Del Negro. I think given the circumstances as a near must win game, it was absolutely a mistake by Del Negro. You have to realize that Noah's doing ok out there and take the risk playing him more (I'm sure Noah would've been ok with it). It would've been a non-issue if we won the game, but we didn't so Vinny now faces the music. Granted, I have been one of Vinny's bigger supporters; or rather, I have been in favor of giving him a fair chance. As such, I think most of his mistakes are severely micro-analyzed and are trivial. This one, however, is a clear mistake and I am sensing Bulls management are using this to make Vinny the fall guy for not making the playoffs. I kinda feel bad for the guy, I mean people make mistakes, but then again people aren't very forgiving in this business so you can't let these things happen. Anyway, I think if Bulls don't make the playoffs, this mistake will cost Vinny his job and the Bulls will look to someone like Byron Scott to take over (Scott btw is one of the few free agent coaches I like -- please say NO to those morons Van Gundy and Avery Johnson).

04-10-2010, 09:12 AM	#3 (permalink)
narek Moderator Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 9,836 Rep Power: 1171356	Re: Vinny is the fall guy, on his way out? Huh. I wonder if someone will ask about it before tomorrow's game? I don't think Vinnie's a horrible coach, but then I have a different perspective. I watched all the horrible ooaching the Bucks had before they hired Skiles.

04-10-2010, 10:27 AM	#4 (permalink)
yodurk All-Star Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 9,385 Rep Power: 1005485	Re: Vinny is the fall guy, on his way out? He's really not a horrible coach, if he was then this thing would've fallen apart long ago. There are things I like about him. But, the Bulls management always does their best to keep the blame away from themselves. I think their whole attitude all along is to pin things on the players or coaches when things go bad. (Which sometimes is justified, but certainly not all the time) In this case, Vinny made a clearly bad mistake. If the Bulls don't make the playoffs, then management and fans alike can point to this NJ game and say, "win that, and we're in". And why didn't we? Vinny Del Negro. The issue I have there is this team's problems go deeper than that, and yet society has conditioned us to identify who is to blame. In this case, I believe Del Negro is the fall guy if Bulls don't make the playoffs. And this is the excuse that Gar and co have been looking for to can Del Negro to find a more marketable option. For the record, I'm fine w/ a coaching change. I've always liked Byron Scott, and he'd fit well here. Guess I just feel bad for how Del Negro is treated; he seems like a good guy and works hard. Rose, Noah, and Deng have found their stride under his watch. It's a tough business, this NBA.

04-10-2010, 11:35 AM	#5 (permalink)
BULLHITTER Veteran Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,566 Rep Power: 93533	Re: Vinny is the fall guy, on his way out? typical bulls spin, making vdn the fall guy, but the REALITY is had derrick rose stayed in front of his man, courtney lee on his right-handed drive to his RIGHT, miller doesn't have to move over into position to cover, and lopez doesn't get free on the baseline, end of game. the resolve of this leaderless team is epic (6 year vets can't nurse a 7 point lead in ot?), they've wet themselves so many times, wilted under bright lights, stained themselves when what was needed was simply energy. i saw the stats, and boy are they sure misleading. deng 19 points, hirnich 13/9/9, rose 25 (he might've gave up more)......did they play good? now with the WHOLE SEASON on the line, they've got ONE MORE chance to backpeddle into the playoffs. i'm predicting tomorrow's game already as a classic, win or lose; for the record, on the road, my money's on the guys not showing up. and JR's going to pay somebody 80-100 mil to add to this malaise-infected bunch? i'm going to laugh my *** off at the pr spin the bulls are concocting for THIS offseason.

04-11-2010, 01:01 PM	#9 (permalink)
yodurk All-Star Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 9,385 Rep Power: 1005485	Re: Vinny is the fall guy, on his way out? Regardless of this whole thing, I definitely can say that I'm not looking forward to facing Brook Lopez for the next 10 years. He's really hurt us in his young career, and did it yet again in not one, but two critical spots (clutch free throws and tip-in). What I wouldn't give to pair him and Noah up in a Bulls uniform together.

04-11-2010, 02:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
mvP to the Wee 1.7% Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chicago Posts: 6,500 Rep Power: 2167028	Re: Vinny is the fall guy, on his way out? Vinny is most definitely on his way out.

04-11-2010, 03:54 PM	#11 (permalink)
TwinkieTowers Star Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Jose, CA Age: 31 Posts: 2,900 Rep Power: 1922	Re: Vinny is the fall guy, on his way out? Vinny is only a fall guy because he's too much of a professional to call management out. I'd chuckle if Reinsdorf fired Pax and made Vinny the defacto GM.

04-11-2010, 08:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
Dornado Community Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: WI Posts: 10,312 Rep Power: 10609190	Re: Vinny is the fall guy, on his way out? So Vinny must have coached a hell of a game tonight, huh? __________________

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