Rockets pursuing Asik? (Update: 3 day timer likely to start Friday or Sat) - Page 6 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

**Dornado** · 07-11-2012, 11:31 AM

So we need to find a way to flip Asik for something of value before the big number hits, I guess

**jnrjr79** · 07-11-2012, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dornado

So we need to find a way to flip Asik for something of value before the big number hits, I guess

Yeah, that's my big takeaway from this. If Asik is re-signed, it seems like dealing his expiring would provide a lot of flexibility.

Rhyder · 07-11-2012, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnrjr79

Yeah, that's my big takeaway from this. If Asik is re-signed, it seems like dealing his expiring would provide a lot of flexibility.

And if we can't, we lose Deng and Taj in the meantime while waiting for the 15-16 offseason. To me, that is not worth it at all.

Hoodey · 07-11-2012, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnrjr79

Yeah, that's my big takeaway from this. If Asik is re-signed, it seems like dealing his expiring would provide a lot of flexibility.

That's a very specific basket to be putting your eggs in, is it not?

As I've asked before. Other than Allen and Garnett, what is the history of consolidation trades mattering to a champion - ever??

You're banking on a superstar who can put you over the top also being unhappy and wanting to leave a team and sign a long term deal.

Paxson is now pushing the "land of realized expectations" to what, 12 years after he was hired? And some people seem to be okay with that. I'm telling you guys. Jerry Angelo is sitting somewhere now like "how come I couldn't get those expectations" lol

**jnrjr79** · 07-11-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhyder

And if we can't, we lose Deng and Taj in the meantime while waiting for the 15-16 offseason. To me, that is not worth it at all.

Oh, I'm with you. I'm on the record saying I would not match. I'm simply trying to express what the Bulls FO may be thinking. 2014 consolidation trade featuring, among other assets, expiring contracts.

**jnrjr79** · 07-11-2012, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoodey

That's a very specific basket to be putting your eggs in, is it not?

It sure is. I'm not for it.

Quote:

As I've asked before. Other than Allen and Garnett, what is the history of consolidation trades mattering to a champion - ever??

Off the top of my head - Pau Gasol.

Quote:

You're banking on a superstar who can put you over the top also being unhappy and wanting to leave a team and sign a long term deal.

Paxson is now pushing the "land of realized expectations" to what, 12 years after he was hired? And some people seem to be okay with that. I'm telling you guys. Jerry Angelo is sitting somewhere now like "how come I couldn't get those expectations" lol

What are our options? It seems as simple as 1) consolidation trade (or should this just be called "trade"?) or 2) cap space for free agency. We're not going to be in a position to tank hard enough to feel secure simply via the draft.

Rhyder · 07-11-2012, 08:00 PM

Aggrey Smith reporting on Twitter that the Bulls have not received an offer sheet from Houston on Asik as of yet today.

Smokescreen, or are they trying to work out a Dwight deal that would obviously supercede an Asik signing?

Hoodey · 07-11-2012, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnrjr79

It sure is. I'm not for it.

Off the top of my head - Pau Gasol.

Yeah, but I'd have a hard time saying you could rely on a Gasol-type trade. Wasn't the owner of Memphis a Chicago guy who was willing to take less from LA specifically because he hates Jerry Reinsdorf? I've heard that on the score over and over again.

Quote:

What are our options? It seems as simple as 1) consolidation trade (or should this just be called "trade"?) or 2) cap space for free agency. We're not going to be in a position to tank hard enough to feel secure simply via the draft.

I'd start with identifying who will be a legit #2 type and trying to secure that player in the meantime.

I'll defer to Epstein, who talks about not wanting to pay big contracts to known commodities who will be 28 when you sign them, because you want to really get that 24-28 time period on your team. The guys who are going to be the #2 stars of 2015 likely ARENT considered that now.

This sales job of "well, we aren't doing anything now, but just wait till mid-season 14-15 or summer 2015" isn't working on me.

I don't like where we are now, and feel it was easily avoidable with a commitment to flexibility. You ask me "Where would you go from here." In good faith, I answered you with at least a top of my head answer. As someone who has already not been happy, come on. Riding with Asik and hoping for "consolidation 14-15." For real??

**jnrjr79** · 07-12-2012, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhyder

Aggrey Smith reporting on Twitter that the Bulls have not received an offer sheet from Houston on Asik as of yet today.

Smokescreen, or are they trying to work out a Dwight deal that would obviously supercede an Asik signing?

Supposedly it's because the players from the Camby deal need to pass their physicals before Houston technically has the cap space to sign the offer sheet w/Omer.

**jnrjr79** · 07-12-2012, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoodey

Yeah, but I'd have a hard time saying you could rely on a Gasol-type trade. Wasn't the owner of Memphis a Chicago guy who was willing to take less from LA specifically because he hates Jerry Reinsdorf? I've heard that on the score over and over again.

I don't know anything about that theory. You just asked for an example of a recent consolidation trade and that's what came to mind.

Quote:

I'd start with identifying who will be a legit #2 type and trying to secure that player in the meantime.

I'll defer to Epstein, who talks about not wanting to pay big contracts to known commodities who will be 28 when you sign them, because you want to really get that 24-28 time period on your team. The guys who are going to be the #2 stars of 2015 likely ARENT considered that now.

Understood. I think people get a little to wrapped up in the youth thing, though. By and large, NBA championship teams are veteran teams. Though, I suppose with one-and-done players, a lot of 24 year-old players are pretty seasoned.

Quote:

I don't like where we are now, and feel it was easily avoidable with a commitment to flexibility. You ask me "Where would you go from here." In good faith, I answered you with at least a top of my head answer. As someone who has already not been happy, come on. Riding with Asik and hoping for "consolidation 14-15." For real??

Let's be clear. I'm against re-signing Asik and have indicated that consistently. But, I think it's important to be honest about what Asik is as a player and what the Bulls' realistic options are for improvement. Cap space looks not possible until 2014 at the earlierst (and later if Asik is matched and not traded). So, a trade (be it for a high draft pick or an active player who you intend to fill thta #2 role) seems to be the only possible option. The odds of pulling off such a trade would seem to go up when you've got some good expiring salaries to work with.

Da Grinch · 07-12-2012, 08:22 AM

the more i think about the more i like the bulls matching Omer at this price , obviously ideally he could be had for less but I see him as a starting center caliber player and an avg salary of 8mil. is far for that .

especially considering his main flaw as a player is offensive polish , which players tend to get as they play more.

also maybe this will be the impetus for removing Boozer for a better piece.

**Dornado** · 07-13-2012, 06:39 AM

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...witter-kcjhoop

With Asik decision looming, Bulls seek to pare salary
It all boils down to financial flexibility as they look to go forward
July 12, 2012|By K.C. Johnson, Chicago Tribune reporter

Quote:

The three-day clock on the Bulls' decision to match Omer Asik's three-year, $25.1 million offer sheet from the Rockets will start Friday or Saturday after the Rockets spent Thursday preparing to use the amnesty provision on Luis Scola in an attempt to land Dwight Howard eventually.

Sources have indicated any potential pursuit of Howard won't affect Asik's offer, which Bulls management hasn't tipped its hand on matching or declining. Management is said to have gone back and forth on the decision, which would ensure the franchise entering luxury tax territory for the first time.

With Derrick Rose's maximum extension beginning next season and the need to re-sign Taj Gibson eventually, the Bulls could become a repeat tax offender, which is more punitive under terms of the collective bargaining agreement.

**Dornado** · 07-13-2012, 09:59 AM

I'm sensing we may match... to prepare, I'm trying to talk myself into Omer Asik being worth the money, so, cherrypicked highlights it is:

Hoodey · 07-13-2012, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnrjr79

I don't know anything about that theory. You just asked for an example of a recent consolidation trade and that's what came to mind.

It's been rehashed repeatedly on the score. Basically the Memphis owner hates Jerry and loved the idea of helping LA out with a generous trade offer.

Quote:

Understood. I think people get a little to wrapped up in the youth thing, though. By and large, NBA championship teams are veteran teams. Though, I suppose with one-and-done players, a lot of 24 year-old players are pretty seasoned.

I'm not on the youth thing per se. I'm on the better #2 player thing. And if you're not going to get in on Howard or someone in that middle-age range, you might as well try to get a #2 on the "junk bond" market, so to speak.

Quote:

Let's be clear. I'm against re-signing Asik and have indicated that consistently. But, I think it's important to be honest about what Asik is as a player and what the Bulls' realistic options are for improvement. Cap space looks not possible until 2014 at the earlierst (and later if Asik is matched and not traded). So, a trade (be it for a high draft pick or an active player who you intend to fill thta #2 role) seems to be the only possible option. The odds of pulling off such a trade would seem to go up when you've got some good expiring salaries to work with.

But now you're talking about a 2015 expiring. So you wouldn't even DRAFT that player until 2014. Now we're waiting till 2017 for our potential #2 to develop into a #2??

Hoodey · 07-13-2012, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Grinch

the more i think about the more i like the bulls matching Omer at this price , obviously ideally he could be had for less but I see him as a starting center caliber player and an avg salary of 8mil. is far for that .

especially considering his main flaw as a player is offensive polish , which players tend to get as they play more.

also maybe this will be the impetus for removing Boozer for a better piece.

You see him as a starting caliber center? For a championship team or anything close to it?

His problem is not "offensive polish." Scottie Pippen needed offensive polish. His problem is the lack of any offensive ability whatsoever. He's a stiff.

07-11-2012, 11:31 AM	#76 (permalink)
Dornado Community Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: WI Posts: 10,332 Rep Power: 10609191	So we need to find a way to flip Asik for something of value before the big number hits, I guess __________________

07-11-2012, 08:00 PM	#82 (permalink)
Rhyder Anti Monday Morning QB Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Aurora, IL Age: 34 Posts: 6,071 Rep Power: 755933	Re: Rockets pursuing Asik? Aggrey Smith reporting on Twitter that the Bulls have not received an offer sheet from Houston on Asik as of yet today. Smokescreen, or are they trying to work out a Dwight deal that would obviously supercede an Asik signing?

07-12-2012, 08:22 AM	#86 (permalink)
Da Grinch X-Mas Taker Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: nyc Posts: 8,386 Rep Power: 2256496	Re: Rockets pursuing Asik? the more i think about the more i like the bulls matching Omer at this price , obviously ideally he could be had for less but I see him as a starting center caliber player and an avg salary of 8mil. is far for that . especially considering his main flaw as a player is offensive polish , which players tend to get as they play more. also maybe this will be the impetus for removing Boozer for a better piece. __________________ Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb deciding what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.

07-13-2012, 09:59 AM	#88 (permalink)
Dornado Community Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: WI Posts: 10,332 Rep Power: 10609191	Re: Rockets pursuing Asik? (Update: 3 day timer likely to start Friday or Sat) I'm sensing we may match... to prepare, I'm trying to talk myself into Omer Asik being worth the money, so, cherrypicked highlights it is: __________________

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