Firefight

OK, instead of rip the signing...And suggest players from when you wore diapers...who should the Bulls of signed?

They needed a back-up big and weren't going to spend money... I think we all agree so far. So if not Nazr, then who? And what does it really matter? Whether they sign a washed up vet for the min or an unproven rookie for the min, you're still getting garbage for garbage...

Hoodey

I'm happy in one sense. If there is a philosophical departure from paying guys bloated deals in a vacuum or for external reasons like "reward contracts" to - OKAY, Derrick Rose is a guy you pay big years and money to; IF AND WHEN another guys comes along as a second star, you pay him, until then the deals are low money or low years, or preferably both, then yes, I'm happy. The next long term, big deal, and by big I mean anything above 3 years, 24 mill - should be for Rose's "Pippen."

Where I'm not happy is that there is still that Paxsonesque goal to yearn for competitiveness in these signings. Kirk Hirnich, Bellinelli, maybe Mohammed, have no long-term future here, but rather than go for boom or bust potential guys who wouldn't hurt you by busting and being gone in a year, they're going to have guys come in - guys who will carve out roles on this team. Then what? I'd have rather brought in four guys who would probably be nothing, but who might be sleepers, than guys who will never be better than average, but if they're average quickly, then we'll still need to replace their role.

Agree here.

Just in the sense that people will say, "okay, you had to pay Boozer when Lebron didn't come, because the cap room would have run out with the Noah and Rose signing." If you had said to Deng, "3 years, 24 mill, take it or leave it," it's only great. Either he stays and you'd have had a chance to either say "hey, this guy is worth 72 mill" (very unlikely) or "we paid wisely, any deal needs to be a continuation of that" OR he leaves and you win 30 games and probably end up with a chance to take DeRozan after Rose's rookie year. Deng on a friendly deal or DeRozan on a rookie deal are better than Deng on his deal and it's not close.

Instead, we got a guy who is paid like a middle to lower-middle #2 and will just never deliver that. And then his "overpay" was what you'd have needed to subtract from the cap to say, "well, let's sign Boozer if he's really a catch to us. If not, no, we don't HAVE to sign anyone."

Fair pay has nothing to do with effectively structuring your team to win a championship. The fact is, Noah is cool on his deal provided you have a #2.

If Deng's money was chopped up into the same dollars for a few guys we could have gotten out of, now you don't have to sign Boozer.

Between Boozer and Deng you will spend what, 28 million next year and neither is a #2.

So arguing "equity" is one thing. Arguing whether someone is paid in a championship friendly way is something completely different. You have freedom to get out of Deng, now you don't even HAVE to sign Boozer and you can say "oh, Deng isn't a #2, but Rose is a #1 and Noah is a defensive/good "3rd best guy", okay, let's get out of Deng and into something else - even if that something else is to sign guys we can perpetually get out of when the right guy does come open."

I'd be hard-pressed to disagree on Noah, but the thing is, can you accurately justify Deng AND Noah together on their deals. Noah is good as your 3rd paid guy, with Rose as your #1. Now, pay Deng and Boozer as your guys between Rose and Noah and who is your #2 scorer on a title team? Who is your #2 overall star in a league where it's become strong enough that you need one?

At the end of the day maybe my frustration elsewhere boiled over here.

You're right, who we got for deals like this was almost irrelevant.

But I say that because the Bulls need to improve at the top of their roster, not on the bottom or in the middle.

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garnett

Good to hear that Rose most likely won't be back before March. Give him all the time in the world.

In the meantime give Teague the development minutes at backup PG. Mike James serves no purpose, this season is a wash.

thebizkit69u

Even in the battle for 2 bad bigs, Miami gets the younger more talented bad big while we get the older and worst big of the two! YAY! Can anyone say GRANT PARK BABY?!

Bulls96

Good comments…as I said before 1M times, we are going nowhere with Deng’s contract.
It is a deadly ballast that needs to be removed…then Boozer’s.

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yodurk

Again I say, are we really going to gripe about a 1-yr, vet minimum signing for a guy who might barely crack double digit minutes per game? Nazr is going to be our 10th man. It is barely worth talking about.

Who is this "talented bad big" you are referring to in Miami? I can only find Eddy Curry, Dexter Pitman, and Joel Anthony that fit the description.

Diable

Curry swallowed a talented big man and maxed out his credit card

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Hoodey

You know what's funny about Eddy Curry. He definitely was never good. He would show signs in some ways, particularly when he was just shoving speed before the heart episode. I thought he had a great stretch of games, but obviously he was just jacked up.

What's funny about him to me is that if you read about him on forums from 01-even now with your post, you'd think he was some terrible guy.

You couldn't read these posts and think that this guy was anybody but a fat stoner who maybe slapped a bunch of Bulls fans moms, and was known for whipping it out in public and mugging old ladies.

I've never gotten the hard on for the guy. Okay, so he was "supposed to be good." Well, he was never paid quite what Luol Deng is. If we're going to just rip people for not being as good as they're supposed to be, guess what -

For Luol Deng's contract and for his role on what's supposed to be a title team, he's an absolute chump. In fact, he's such a chump as an alleged #2 that if you actually like this fraud, I'd find it hard to believe that you can hold yourself up as someone who claims to know anything about basketball.

Anyone who has ever knocked Curry or ripped Curry or beaten this dead horse likely likes someone who just sucks for how good they're supposed to be. Maybe you're not a Deng guy. If not, then I bet you're either a Hinrich guy, a Boozer guy, a Gordon guy, etc. They're all laughing stocks. They're all the kind of guys that Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen probably made fun of in the locker room before games. They're 89-93 Cleveland Cavalier guys.

Curry has never been good, but by no account has he been some bad guy. So I just don't get the joking and the constant drilling of what has been a dead horse to anyone who could be non-emotional about it since about 2005.

I do occasionally meet people who want to rip Curry apart still - which is fine if someone is saying he's good. But no idiot would say that. I often want to ask these people if they're still mad at Brad Sellers too or what?

Eddy Curry had Chris Washburn's brain. For the fact that he was going to be "01 Shawn Kemp in his head" no matter where he went, I'd say he gave us a couple good years - for him lol. I never got why people hated him then, I don't get the jokes now.

UNLESS, it's more of this b.s. where you won't say it but you want to rip a guy for having the nerve to be drafted by an unpopular fat man who MJ made fun of.

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yodurk

Eddy Curry is a worthless basketball player and from what I have gathered he is a pretty terrible human being as well.

And yes, he did in fact make ALOT of money (6 yr, $60M to be precise) to do considerably less than what Luol Deng has done for the Bulls. Luol is also 100x the human being off the court, sine that was mentioned.

Sorry, I just can't defend the guy in any way, shape, or form.

Rhyder

Luol Deng is not paid as a #2. He is paid as a high end #3. It's funny how this contract is now viewed as a detriment by some because they can point out the year 5 and 6 after 12% raises have kicked in for 4 years now.

His average salary is $11.8 million over his six year deal. Name me a #2 on a contending team over the past five years making less than that not on a rookie deal?

Tony Parker is about the only guy I can come up with even in Deng's ballpark.

Hoodey

What did he do to be a terrible human being? I'm not saying he didn't. I just thought he was a royal dumas (european for dumb@ss).

My point is that you'd think the guy was as obnoxious as Chad Johnson or Terrell Owens in the way that he carried himself to be so hated as a human being.

The fact is, even if you present facts, none of this was out in 2005 and he was butchered as some kind of bad guy back then. I always knew he was a non-factor dope, but not a bad guy.

As far as Luol, degree is not arguable. Eddy underachieved for the money much much worse. But if you're going to start handing out grief for anyone who underachieves for the money, then you have to talk about Luol. As bad as Curry? Not close. Not the #2 option he's paid to be. NOT EVEN A LITTLE.

It's THE problem with the 2011-present Bulls. If you say "okay, why did they lose" and look at the money paid, it's Boozer and Deng. They are THE players that if you compare the Bulls to a title team you say "okay, Rose is a #1. He at least REMINDS me of Bird, Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Shaq. He's going to be a top 35-40 player ever. Noah is as good as a lot of defensive-oriented #3s." And then if you're not biased and you aren't just a Deng lover, you look at Deng and say "oh, HE is the #2? Ohhhh. OH. NOW I get it."

For a paid #2, he's a chump. Great guy? Maybe. Chump? Definitely.

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Firefight

Deng might be the #2 on our team... He needs to be the #3... But he's not paid like a number 2. There are way more second fiddle guys making more paper than Deng.... Why do you always say this?

Hoodey

Okay, if he's paid at Tony Parker's level, there you go, because he's not even close to as good as Tony Parker. So sounds like you just answered your own question about that utterly mediocre chump you love so much.

And we're arguing Deng's fifth and sixth years because those are the years we're about to BE IN. Those are the years that, if we were free of, we could amnesty Boozer and have cap space.

Wade was paid 15.6 this year. Deng was paid 12.3.

But Wade's PER in a playoffs in which he was injured was 22.0. Deng's was 14.3. PER sets the average player at 15.0. So Deng was slightly below average and Wade was 1.5 times an average player.

For anyone taking an objective look who would come in here and evaluate this team as a non-Bulls fan, Deng IS the indictment of this team. He's the biggest thing you look at when you say "how is this team different from a title team."

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jnrjr79

Eddy had some quite publicized domestic issues that made him look, frankly, like a miserable human being. My understanding is he's had massive child support issues and also settled a case for statutory rape. He's been sued a million times for not paying debts. Etc.

jnrjr79

Yes it was. You might spend a little time on the Googles looking in to your boy before making proclamations.