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Old 12-07-2012, 10:48 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

I usually watch the games on dvr delay, but keep any and all posts going. This is my favorite Bulls talk site around and don't want to see it fail.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:15 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

We might wanna do what they're doing over in the Raptors forum. One thread per month or ten games or whatever that people can use for any/all of the games.

It's difficult for me to do much more than box score watch from China since my internet doesn't do so well with streaming over here, but I've tried to catch highlights when I can leave them alone long enough to finish buffering.
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

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Originally Posted by Good Hope View Post
Man, relative to a few years ago, and even to expectations at the beginning of the year (prior to playoffs), things are not looking good for Chicago's teams. Cubs look to be really bad for a few more years. Strike in the NHL. Bulls are in limbo with Rose hurt. The Bears looked disappointing to say the least.

Hope the White Sox can at least get to the playoffs. And maybe the Bears just had a bad day?
You have to understand what's being sold in Chicago and you'll understand motivations.

The Blackhawks and White Sox have to win or be serious contenders just to still draw nothing, but at least not draw as bad as the Oakland As. I'm generalizing the Blackhawks to fit here, hockey overall just has much lower interest and therefore television deals that pay them nothing.

What are the Cubs (they've admitted they suck now and are rebuilding, but have done what I'm about to explain in recent years past), Bears and Bulls selling? Being a real contender?

NO. They're selling a regular season that can keep sports dreamers in a happy place until the season is either mostly over, or ends with an early playoff loss. This strategy includes building teams with serious playoff faults, but probably a surplus of what wins in the regular season. Get to 7-1 halfway through the year, or in the Bulls case WITH Rose, 60-ish wins, and the average fan is going to say, "wow, we can win it all. I mean, if you take our wins in the regular season and just translate that kind of success to the playoffs, it's a no brainer!"

The Bears first had Sporting News say that the team needed a (and I'm not paraphrasing) "serious infusion of youth and talent on the offensive line."

You're saying, "what else is new." Yeah, they said that following the 2005 season! Here we are, almost 7 years later. Carimi was drafted too high because Tice knows his dad (unless you could watch him play and find a legitimate reason? - I saw him at Wisconsin, not so much) and Williams, a converted TE who came in with a bad injury. He literally couldn't walk coming INTO camp his rookie year. The NFL version of Greg Oden, except with much less upside.

The Bears traded Kyle Orton, a decent starting QB, and TWO first rounders for Cutler. That's the equivalent of a king's ransom in the NFL.

Now, I think I saw what many didn't want to on Cutler. 100% of Jeff George's arm and about 33% of his brain. He's not an idiot on George's scale, but he flashes hints of Jeff George at crucial times and could hardly be called a great decision maker.

And that's what Super Bowl winning QBs are. Great decision makers. Sometimes they have John Elway's talent, but Tom Brady hardly has that, nor does he have anything approaching Cutler's arm.

But fine. Say you love Cutler, and I hardly blame him for this. There's two problems.

1. Elite QBs are almost always drafted by the team they win with. This is part of a plan to continue to suck or be average, so draft picks will still be high. We have had low picks with him because we acquired him once he was stepping into his prime AND we gave up two picks for him.

2. Okay, you want Cutler Angelo? And Emery? Guess what? You become an offensive football team. Where is Tarik Glenn? Marvin Harrison? We have our Reggie Wayne in Marshall, but where is Jeff Saturday, Dallas Clark, Joe Addai?

We never did what you do around a good QB. We never committed to being an OFFENSIVE football team.

Here we are, years later, defensive head coach with a defense that the league has figured out every bit as much as they figured out Martz's offense, no commitment to the offensive line, and when there has been one, it's come with awful decisions. Two out of the first three 2012 draft picks defensive players!

Shea McClellan is a pass rush specialist, too light in the ass to play DE every down, and you thought you had the luxury of drafting him instead of a player like Coby Fleener or Riley Reiff? You thought you had the luxury of drafting Brian Harden? With our offensive line?

A tight end who was a DEFENSIVE END in college. That's right. Kellen FREEMAN-Davis lacked the fluidity as a TE so bad his senior year they moved him to DE at Michigan State.

Next time, give me $20 and before the season I can tell you that a team with no offensive line and an old defense will start to completely fizz out in the back half of the schedule.

The Bulls? LOL. With Rose back it's a guy who is not the best superstar in the league and a bunch of #3 options. Just like Drexler's Blazers. Just like Miller's Pacers and just like Ewing's Knicks.
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

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Originally Posted by Hoodey View Post
You have to understand what's being sold in Chicago and you'll understand motivations.

The Blackhawks and White Sox have to win or be serious contenders just to still draw nothing, but at least not draw as bad as the Oakland As. I'm generalizing the Blackhawks to fit here, hockey overall just has much lower interest and therefore television deals that pay them nothing.

What are the Cubs (they've admitted they suck now and are rebuilding, but have done what I'm about to explain in recent years past), Bears and Bulls selling? Being a real contender?

NO. They're selling a regular season that can keep sports dreamers in a happy place until the season is either mostly over, or ends with an early playoff loss. This strategy includes building teams with serious playoff faults, but probably a surplus of what wins in the regular season. Get to 7-1 halfway through the year, or in the Bulls case WITH Rose, 60-ish wins, and the average fan is going to say, "wow, we can win it all. I mean, if you take our wins in the regular season and just translate that kind of success to the playoffs, it's a no brainer!"

The Bears first had Sporting News say that the team needed a (and I'm not paraphrasing) "serious infusion of youth and talent on the offensive line."

You're saying, "what else is new." Yeah, they said that following the 2005 season! Here we are, almost 7 years later. Carimi was drafted too high because Tice knows his dad (unless you could watch him play and find a legitimate reason? - I saw him at Wisconsin, not so much) and Williams, a converted TE who came in with a bad injury. He literally couldn't walk coming INTO camp his rookie year. The NFL version of Greg Oden, except with much less upside.

The Bears traded Kyle Orton, a decent starting QB, and TWO first rounders for Cutler. That's the equivalent of a king's ransom in the NFL.

Now, I think I saw what many didn't want to on Cutler. 100% of Jeff George's arm and about 33% of his brain. He's not an idiot on George's scale, but he flashes hints of Jeff George at crucial times and could hardly be called a great decision maker.

And that's what Super Bowl winning QBs are. Great decision makers. Sometimes they have John Elway's talent, but Tom Brady hardly has that, nor does he have anything approaching Cutler's arm.

But fine. Say you love Cutler, and I hardly blame him for this. There's two problems.

1. Elite QBs are almost always drafted by the team they win with. This is part of a plan to continue to suck or be average, so draft picks will still be high. We have had low picks with him because we acquired him once he was stepping into his prime AND we gave up two picks for him.

2. Okay, you want Cutler Angelo? And Emery? Guess what? You become an offensive football team. Where is Tarik Glenn? Marvin Harrison? We have our Reggie Wayne in Marshall, but where is Jeff Saturday, Dallas Clark, Joe Addai?

We never did what you do around a good QB. We never committed to being an OFFENSIVE football team.

Here we are, years later, defensive head coach with a defense that the league has figured out every bit as much as they figured out Martz's offense, no commitment to the offensive line, and when there has been one, it's come with awful decisions. Two out of the first three 2012 draft picks defensive players!

Shea McClellan is a pass rush specialist, too light in the ass to play DE every down, and you thought you had the luxury of drafting him instead of a player like Coby Fleener or Riley Reiff? You thought you had the luxury of drafting Brian Harden? With our offensive line?

A tight end who was a DEFENSIVE END in college. That's right. Kellen FREEMAN-Davis lacked the fluidity as a TE so bad his senior year they moved him to DE at Michigan State.

Next time, give me $20 and before the season I can tell you that a team with no offensive line and an old defense will start to completely fizz out in the back half of the schedule.

The Bulls? LOL. With Rose back it's a guy who is not the best superstar in the league and a bunch of #3 options. Just like Drexler's Blazers. Just like Miller's Pacers and just like Ewing's Knicks.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:03 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoodey View Post

The Bears first had Sporting News say that the team needed a (and I'm not paraphrasing) "serious infusion of youth and talent on the offensive line."

You're saying, "what else is new." Yeah, they said that following the 2005 season! Here we are, almost 7 years later. Carimi was drafted too high because Tice knows his dad (unless you could watch him play and find a legitimate reason? - I saw him at Wisconsin, not so much) and Williams, a converted TE who came in with a bad injury. He literally couldn't walk coming INTO camp his rookie year. The NFL version of Greg Oden, except with much less upside.

The Bears traded Kyle Orton, a decent starting QB, and TWO first rounders for Cutler. That's the equivalent of a king's ransom in the NFL.

Now, I think I saw what many didn't want to on Cutler. 100% of Jeff George's arm and about 33% of his brain. He's not an idiot on George's scale, but he flashes hints of Jeff George at crucial times and could hardly be called a great decision maker.

And that's what Super Bowl winning QBs are. Great decision makers. Sometimes they have John Elway's talent, but Tom Brady hardly has that, nor does he have anything approaching Cutler's arm.

But fine. Say you love Cutler, and I hardly blame him for this. There's two problems.

1. Elite QBs are almost always drafted by the team they win with. This is part of a plan to continue to suck or be average, so draft picks will still be high. We have had low picks with him because we acquired him once he was stepping into his prime AND we gave up two picks for him.

2. Okay, you want Cutler Angelo? And Emery? Guess what? You become an offensive football team. Where is Tarik Glenn? Marvin Harrison? We have our Reggie Wayne in Marshall, but where is Jeff Saturday, Dallas Clark, Joe Addai?

We never did what you do around a good QB. We never committed to being an OFFENSIVE football team.

Here we are, years later, defensive head coach with a defense that the league has figured out every bit as much as they figured out Martz's offense, no commitment to the offensive line, and when there has been one, it's come with awful decisions. Two out of the first three 2012 draft picks defensive players!

Shea McClellan is a pass rush specialist, too light in the ass to play DE every down, and you thought you had the luxury of drafting him instead of a player like Coby Fleener or Riley Reiff? You thought you had the luxury of drafting Brian Harden? With our offensive line?

A tight end who was a DEFENSIVE END in college. That's right. Kellen FREEMAN-Davis lacked the fluidity as a TE so bad his senior year they moved him to DE at Michigan State.

Next time, give me $20 and before the season I can tell you that a team with no offensive line and an old defense will start to completely fizz out in the back half of the schedule.
Carimi has been disappointing as a pro so far but he was an absolute beast at Wisconsin, I'm not sure which Wisconsin games you were watching. Also, the kid has played 14 total pro games... I'm willing to give him a little time. I had much higher expectations for him and I don't think they were necessarily unreasonable... I don't know if he lost weight after the most recent knee issues or what, but he hasn't been able to hold a spot in some key situations. A lot of that is leverage and handwork. I still think he can be a decent lineman in this league.

On the QB thing, Steve Young and Drew Brees come to mind (and no, Cutler is not on their level). It isn't that you can't trade for a franchise QB (and I realize you said almost, just pointing out a few counterexamples). I think the Cutler trade was the right move, though I'm with you on not surrounding him with the appropriate offensive talent, particularly on the O-Line. The issues with Cutler are more than just decision making, he also lacks the kind of accuracy that guys like Rodgers, Brees, Brady and Manning have. I still think you can win a super bowl with him at QB, and that he can help you along the way (as opposed to a Trent Dilfer type), but it isn't reasonable to expect him to carry a team there.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:51 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

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Carimi has been disappointing as a pro so far but he was an absolute beast at Wisconsin, I'm not sure which Wisconsin games you were watching. Also, the kid has played 14 total pro games... I'm willing to give him a little time. I had much higher expectations for him and I don't think they were necessarily unreasonable... I don't know if he lost weight after the most recent knee issues or what, but he hasn't been able to hold a spot in some key situations. A lot of that is leverage and handwork. I still think he can be a decent lineman in this league.

On the QB thing, Steve Young and Drew Brees come to mind (and no, Cutler is not on their level). It isn't that you can't trade for a franchise QB (and I realize you said almost, just pointing out a few counterexamples). I think the Cutler trade was the right move, though I'm with you on not surrounding him with the appropriate offensive talent, particularly on the O-Line. The issues with Cutler are more than just decision making, he also lacks the kind of accuracy that guys like Rodgers, Brees, Brady and Manning have. I still think you can win a super bowl with him at QB, and that he can help you along the way (as opposed to a Trent Dilfer type), but it isn't reasonable to expect him to carry a team there.
To add to the Carimi thing, he shut down numerous 1st round talent DE's in college and went up against JJ Watt in practice all the time. I don't think his knee is really 100% honestly, I'm willing to really give him next season before considering him a bust. What we do need to replace is Webb. We can't constantly go into max protections against elite teams. Jake Long, Ryan Clady, and Branden Alberts are all FA's this year, I think Clady gets franchised, but Alberts is definitely possible. Would also sign a quality OG. For the draft, I'd go MLB 1st round, TE 2nd round, OG 3rd round.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

I would add Manny Pacquiao's loss to a steroid-ed up Marquez to the list. Ugh... What a year.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

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Old 12-09-2012, 06:54 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

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Carimi has been disappointing as a pro so far but he was an absolute beast at Wisconsin, I'm not sure which Wisconsin games you were watching.
I'd consider myself rather mild as a Bulls or NBA fan compared to college football. I think the level of analysis on purdue.rivals.com or any of the rivals sites for premium members is almost in-depth to an unhealthy extent.

Gabe Carimi was not an absolute beast in Wisconsin in terms of pro scouting. Wisconsin runs a very specialized offense. The state and surrounding states (Minnesota, Iowa, Michigan) are rich with huge linemen. There have been the occasional Joe Thomases, but for the most part they sacrifice good feet to bring the beef. They line up offensive lines that average 20-25 lbs. more per man than other Big Ten schools, sometimes even Ohio State, and their goal is to run stretch plays, counters, halfback dives and then role the QB off of those runs. When they do pass, they've usually set the run up to the point that the QB is just standing there. The LT is certainly rarely in a straight up look on the edge similar to many other college and pro offenses.

So it's hard to look at Carimi and five guys selling out on the run, then to see Wisconsin run play action and think, "man this guy would do the things that a RT has to do really well." He has bad feet. They weren't really good for the college level. Again though, they're not looking to have great feet at Wisconsin. They're looking to just bring big bodies and pound you into submission.

Quote:
Also, the kid has played 14 total pro games... I'm willing to give him a little time.
You go ahead and do that. Any idiot can sit there 3-4 years from now after he's proven OVER AND OVER AND OVER that he's either a bust, or a decent option at RG, and say, "he's a bust."

I'm going to call it now, just like I can show you posts from the preseason in which I predicted that the defense would lose it's legs in the second half, the lack of OL and offensive commitment would come back to bite them, and the team would finish between 7-9 and 9-7.

He's not that good. Now, we can discuss it in 3 years if you want. I feel pretty confident though.

Quote:
I had much higher expectations for him and I don't think they were necessarily unreasonable... I don't know if he lost weight after the most recent knee issues or what, but he hasn't been able to hold a spot in some key situations. A lot of that is leverage and handwork. I still think he can be a decent lineman in this league.
Show me a team that fails to commit to the offensive line or TE. Show me a team that drafts two OTs high in the draft in the 7 years after Sporting News calls for practically a whole new line. Show me that team getting one guy who showed up damaged goods, and then show me the BETTER of the two first round picks being merely a "decent lineman in this league" and I'll show you a team whose window will shut rather quickly and who will have to do the ultimate hard thing to do... rebuild with Jay Cutler's whiny ass on the team.

Quote:
On the QB thing, Steve Young and Drew Brees come to mind (and no, Cutler is not on their level). It isn't that you can't trade for a franchise QB (and I realize you said almost, just pointing out a few counterexamples). I think the Cutler trade was the right move, though I'm with you on not surrounding him with the appropriate offensive talent, particularly on the O-Line. The issues with Cutler are more than just decision making, he also lacks the kind of accuracy that guys like Rodgers, Brees, Brady and Manning have. I still think you can win a super bowl with him at QB, and that he can help you along the way (as opposed to a Trent Dilfer type), but it isn't reasonable to expect him to carry a team there.
A few things here...

1. No, he's not on that level. And you nailed why. Decision making and accuracy. I'd rather have a guy who grades as a 9 in those areas and a 6 or 7 in armstrength than a guy who grades vice versa like Cutler.

2. Steve Young? My point was that trading for a QB in his prime makes it harder to build around the QB. Carmen Policy and the DeBartolo family were paying players with extra bags of cash that they were laundering from their Youngstown, OH mafia operations. It was so bad (or good) that really good NFL players were lining up to be backups for the 49ers. Why wouldn't you take a low cap number and take 120% of what you sacrificed on paper in cash? The 49ers backup center was one of the best centers in the league at one point.

AND, the draft picks Policy was making were picks he was hitting on BIG TIME well into the later rounds of the draft.

So, yeah, you got me. Pay players with bags of cash and hit draft picks deep into the draft and you can win with Cutler.

Jesse Sapolu was a 2 time ALL PRO Offensive Guard and Center. Yeah, Policy got him in the 11th round. Yes, I said 11th.

Drew Brees was always undersold. He wasn't traded for. Nobody had to give 2 first rounders to get him. It was thought his shoulder was done in San Diego (they never really wanted him to be the plan when his shoulder was good) and when he was a free agent, nobody, including Angelo, wanted him. Bringing up Brees is like bringing up the 04 Pistons to prove a point.

3. It appears we're on the same page on the one thing that matters. I didn't like the trade, but if you were going to make it, you really needed to show a big commitment to putting Cutler in a great place. Picks like Brian Harden and Shea McClellan aren't going to do it.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

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To add to the Carimi thing, he shut down numerous 1st round talent DE's in college and went up against JJ Watt in practice all the time. I don't think his knee is really 100% honestly, I'm willing to really give him next season before considering him a bust. What we do need to replace is Webb. We can't constantly go into max protections against elite teams. Jake Long, Ryan Clady, and Branden Alberts are all FA's this year, I think Clady gets franchised, but Alberts is definitely possible. Would also sign a quality OG. For the draft, I'd go MLB 1st round, TE 2nd round, OG 3rd round.
When we drafted Williams, I wanted Clady then. We were within a couple of picks. We would have had to trade ahead of Denver, potentially costing a 3rd or 4th round selection along with our pick. Sounds like a big price. Especially when you consider how awesome Angelo was with those other draft picks...
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:09 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

By the way, this isn't that hard. Walterfootball.com usually does a great job with these things.

They have Jake Matthews projected as a top 25 pick. He's 6'5" 305 with really good mobility. That's not big for a LT, but mobility is far more important there. He held Barkevious Mingo of LSU in check and had a great game against Alabama. Guess what? If I'm a GM, I don't need to try to out think people and say, "no, Alabama, LSU, that's too obvious. The real answer is probably at Wisconsin or Vanderbilt or Texas A&M Corpus Christi." The answer is usually right in front of your face.

Me personally. I want Tyler Eifert, and I HATE Notre Dame. Eifert is just a great prospect who fills what I think is our biggest need even above LT or RT. He's a big kid at 6'6" 250... so on a Bears team that needs the TE to block first, he can do that. Then, he's a downright WR playing in a TEs body. He'll release off of blocks and give Cutler a big outlet target, which will help a LOT. This kid is the complete package. They have a young QB who will probably never be a pure passer, or Eifert might have 1000 yards.

I'd go Eifert in the first, and then either the best OL or Kawann Short in the 2nd, which is where I see him when this all shakes out. I think he'll get undersold because of the ankle injury he suffered, but I'd trade to the top of the 2nd or even low first to get him.

Then I'd hammer the OL with the 3rd and 4th pick and maybe even free agency. And I'd say to myself, "as far as the other team needs go, i don't DESERVE to draft them, I need to fill them in free agency."

Emery already took the luxury of the picks for Harden and McClellan.
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Old 12-10-2012, 12:16 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

I too wanted Clady in that draft, but Angelo was as clueless as it gets. He'd trade a 1st overall pick if it meant getting all of the 7th round. Same guy who thought he could sell Roy Williams as a number 1 receiver and use the abundance of number 2 and 3 WR's on the Bears as a positive by saying the lack of predictability of where the ball goes gives defenses a hard time gameplanning against us.

I like Emery and I think he has a clue. The Brandon Marshall trade impressed the hell out of me. Unfortunately, I think Lovie Smith has too much of a voice still, that's likely why we saw us draft a safety in the 3rd round despite our obvious OL problems. If we somehow miss the playoffs or get killed in our 1st game, I could see Lovie being let go. Would love to see us get John Gruden as a HC.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:27 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

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I too wanted Clady in that draft, but Angelo was as clueless as it gets. He'd trade a 1st overall pick if it meant getting all of the 7th round. Same guy who thought he could sell Roy Williams as a number 1 receiver and use the abundance of number 2 and 3 WR's on the Bears as a positive by saying the lack of predictability of where the ball goes gives defenses a hard time gameplanning against us.

I like Emery and I think he has a clue. The Brandon Marshall trade impressed the hell out of me. Unfortunately, I think Lovie Smith has too much of a voice still, that's likely why we saw us draft a safety in the 3rd round despite our obvious OL problems. If we somehow miss the playoffs or get killed in our 1st game, I could see Lovie being let go. Would love to see us get John Gruden as a HC.
Okay we're in full agreement here.

The problem, as I understand it from the Score, was that apparently Emery went to Smith and said, "We need offensive linemen in the draft." Smith countered by smooth selling Emery on the fact that Webb was so young and they thought he'd come around and Carimi was going to be really good. It was then that Emery agreed to draft the way Smith wanted. And do you believe that instead of a TE and an OT, he wanted a situational DE and a boom or bust corner/safety prospect? LOL.

I think this season gets Smith fired and hope we get a good offensive coach. If we don't prioritize the offense, Jay will never succeed here.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:55 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

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I think this season gets Smith fired and hope we get a good offensive coach. If we don't prioritize the offense, Jay will never succeed here.

I hope this is the outcome. I have long rooted for Smith to go. However, if the Bears get a wild card slot, does it save Lovie's job for another year? I think it might, even with a first round exit.

I agree the offense needs to be prioritized, and it starts with the line. I'm not loving Tice's play calling abilities, but at some point in time, you've got to give Jay and the offense some continuity, system-wise. You'll never succeed implementing something new every season. Of course, if the Bears hire a new head coach, you must figure the coordinators are gone and systems will be new across the board.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:54 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Pretty bad year for Chicago Sports

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I hope this is the outcome. I have long rooted for Smith to go. However, if the Bears get a wild card slot, does it save Lovie's job for another year? I think it might, even with a first round exit.

I agree the offense needs to be prioritized, and it starts with the line. I'm not loving Tice's play calling abilities, but at some point in time, you've got to give Jay and the offense some continuity, system-wise. You'll never succeed implementing something new every season. Of course, if the Bears hire a new head coach, you must figure the coordinators are gone and systems will be new across the board.
My friend Broderick is a diehard 49ers fan. He wanted Singletary gone and wanted a new coach to be an offensive guy. I countered, "why? Does it matter if he's a good coach?"

His answer was that it does matter. He explained that when it's a defensive guy who is head coach, the defensive philosophy will be cemented in stone as long as that guy is head coach, and if the team needs a change, it will be over and over on offense. Whereas, if the head coach is an offensive guy, then the opposite is true.

So, if we hired a coach named Tim Smarbaugh for example, and he was an offensive guy, it wouldn't matter if new coordinators came in, because they'd be coming in to coach Tim's vision of the offense. So, let's say Tim Smarbaugh brought in a new OC, that guy had success, but got a head coaching job. The next guy would be coming in to teach Smarbaugh's vision of the offense.

If you think back to all the guys Smith has brought in to be the "defensive coordinator" this kind of makes sense, no?

If you want Smith gone, the bad news is that Tice is NOT sticking around. There's no way on earth a qualified offensive head coach thinks that Tice is a good idea for even five minutes.

The good news is, after that change from Tice to said coach's OC, the OC methodology will remain the same so long as you have that coach.

Smith was a good idea when our best player for years to come was Urlacher. Defense would stay so Urlacher could shine. Now it's Cutler, so we need to flip the occassional turnover from OC to DC.

Besides, this offense blows. Forget the lack of any NFL players on the OL. Just the way they scheme is not for Jay. The way they scheme is a lot more for Orton ironically. The guy Jay reminds me most of who has won SBs is Elway. I'd like to see Jay in a scheme similar to 98 Denver.
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