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Old 02-21-2013, 02:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

So, expect this to be the story when tuning in tonight...

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story...-factor-return

Quote:
CHICAGO -- Derrick Rose's brother and manager Reggie Rose said Thursday that the franchise hasn't put enough quality players around the Chicago Bulls star to win a championship and that could be a "big factor" in whether he returns this season from a knee injury.

Reggie Rose said he was speaking for himself and not his brother.

"What have you pieced together? Have you made any moves? Have you made any trades to get better? You know all roads to the championship lead through Miami," Reggie Rose told ESPNChicago.com. "What pieces have you put together for the physical playoffs?
More at the link.
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

It was only a matter of time. I don't think Reggie is incorrect in what he said, but its the wrong time to bring it up. Yes, Garpax has failed in surrounding Rose with championship talent, but that's a complaint that should have been made in the off season.
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Old 02-21-2013, 02:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

Too bad Rose is signed for another 4 years after this season. Not too much leverage. I do agree with his comment
Look at what the Bucks gave up for Reddick. Im sure we could have made a similar offer.
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

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Originally Posted by thebizkit69u View Post
It was only a matter of time. I don't think Reggie is incorrect in what he said, but its the wrong time to bring it up. Yes, Garpax has failed in surrounding Rose with championship talent, but that's a complaint that should have been made in the off season.
Yeah, and not in the paper. That's the sort of thing you go to the front office with directly.
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:28 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

Do family members of stars really think they're helping out the star by spouting off in the media?

I don't know if the Bulls should be frantically trying to assemble stars right now as much as gathering draft picks and using them well. In the east, Miami has the next two seasons on lockdown. Set yourself up to pounce when the big 3 are all in their 30s.
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

It was an absolutely idiotic set of comments, whether they are "correct" or not.

- Not many teams would be 31-22 this far into the season without their superstar AND a non-trivial number of injuries to key players
- The Bulls had 2 all-stars this year not including Derrick. Not many teams have 3 all-star caliber players on their roster.
- As I've pointed out a few times here lately, you absolutely do NOT allow the success of the team have any affect on Derrick's rehab. For some reason he thinks he's doing Derrick a favor, when in actuality it is a major disservice to his rehab if he's ready to play, but being held back because his "teammates are inferior."
- On top of this, let's not forget we own the rights to arguably the best player in Europe; though everything is always "what have you done for me lately" so of course he won't acknowledge that.

This is kind of like yelling at your kids because they brought home an A- on a report card. Reggie is demanding perfection when under the circumstances the team has done an admirable job.

Me thinks the timing of these comments was not a coincidence with a nationally televised game tonight; Reggie did this on purpose. I really have no idea what the hell Rose's camp is trying to accomplish here. Absolutely nothing good can or will come from this.
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

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Originally Posted by yodurk View Post
It was an absolutely idiotic set of comments, whether they are "correct" or not.

- Not many teams would be 31-22 this far into the season without their superstar AND a non-trivial number of injuries to key players
- The Bulls had 2 all-stars this year not including Derrick. Not many teams have 3 all-star caliber players on their roster.
- As I've pointed out a few times here lately, you absolutely do NOT allow the success of the team have any affect on Derrick's rehab. For some reason he thinks he's doing Derrick a favor, when in actuality it is a major disservice to his rehab if he's ready to play, but being held back because his "teammates are inferior."
- On top of this, let's not forget we own the rights to arguably the best player in Europe; though everything is always "what have you done for me lately" so of course he won't acknowledge that.

This is kind of like yelling at your kids because they brought home an A- on a report card. Reggie is demanding perfection when under the circumstances the team has done an admirable job.

Me thinks the timing of these comments was not a coincidence with a nationally televised game tonight; Reggie did this on purpose. I really have no idea what the hell Rose's camp is trying to accomplish here. Absolutely nothing good can or will come from this.

Your points are well made but the name of the game is winning titles. The feeling I get from Rose and his camp is that titles are all they care about. The Bulls have failed to build a title contending team around Rose, that's just a fact.

AS for the regular season record, that's just what it is, regular season success. For all their success during the season they are only 9-11 in the playoffs. You talk about having 2 all-stars, well you also have to understand the difference between Miami's 2 all-stars and Chicago's 2 all-stars,the former being much much better players than the later. Deng and Noah aren't really All-Star caliber players, they are just good players.

The Bulls style of play works great in the regular season, but in the playoffs we saw time and time again the Bulls leaning heavily on their 6'3 PG for all the offense.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

I think those comments are ridiculous and poorly timed.

The Bulls are arguably a top 10-12 team in the NBA, right now. When Rose comes back they should be a top 5-6 team in the NBA. I understand its all about winning a championship, but there wasn't a single player available that the Bulls could have added to make them favorites over the Heat.

I hate to say it but, the Heat are going to repeat.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:08 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

i dont get the poorly timed theme in this thread ...the trade deadline just passed , it seems like the perfect time...a poor time would be a week ago or right before the draft...when reggie rose spouted off it had no effect on bulls trade prospects...had they been in motion.

and yeah he's right

this was the perfect time to reload and rebuild , as good as the bulls have been and have clearly exceeded expectations there is no way they are taking it this season when derrick comes back he will need time to get to 100% which the bulls wont have this season so a title was never a viable option.

they should have tanked and reloaded , traded boozer and probably deng too and came back stronger next season, instead this team is plateauing at a level below a true title contender ...too many teams waste the primes of their stars being just "good enough" instead of taking the chances necessary to be great.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:45 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

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Originally Posted by Da Grinch View Post
i dont get the poorly timed theme in this thread ...the trade deadline just passed , it seems like the perfect time...a poor time would be a week ago or right before the draft...when reggie rose spouted off it had no effect on bulls trade prospects...had they been in motion.
Well in the grand scheme of things you are right. But, the only reason why I think the timing is wrong is because Rose is still hurt and trying to come back from an injury. As is, his return has been a bit of a distraction and with this coming out its even more of a distraction. Also, who's the say Rose isn't going to rush back now in an effort to show the front office that he doesn't share the same beliefs as his brother. If he doesn't play, its because he doesn't feel like the team has done enough, if he does play, then its rushing back. Its a no win situation.

Quote:
and yeah he's right
I agree.

Quote:
this was the perfect time to reload and rebuild , as good as the bulls have been and have clearly exceeded expectations there is no way they are taking it this season when derrick comes back he will need time to get to 100% which the bulls wont have this season so a title was never a viable option.
The problem with this is that they don't share the same vision. The Bulls think they are good as is, they are positioning themselves to be players in the 2014 NBA Free Agency (We all have seen this before) and they believe that Mirotic is a big asset (Still a big unknown IMO). What I find funny is that this teams goal all along was to not pay the luxury tax,and they even failed at that goal.

Quote:
they should have tanked and reloaded , traded boozer and probably deng too and came back stronger next season, instead this team is plateauing at a level below a true title contender ...too many teams waste the primes of their stars being just "good enough" instead of taking the chances necessary to be great.
No Tom Thibodeau team will ever "tank" it. I honestly think maybe the Bulls tried to tank by signing Marco, Nate, Vlad Rad and Muhammad, but they have overachieved. What they should have done was trade Noah at the peak of his game right now. The guy will never have a higher trade value IMO. The Bulls need to understand and accept what he is and also look forward and be very aware of his chronic plantar problem. I'll take my chances down the road with a high draft pick and the potential of a guy like Anthony Bennet and Mirotic over 3 more years of we know what we have in Noah.
[/QUOTE]
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

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Well in the grand scheme of things you are right. But, the only reason why I think the timing is wrong is because Rose is still hurt and trying to come back from an injury. As is, his return has been a bit of a distraction and with this coming out its even more of a distraction. Also, who's the say Rose isn't going to rush back now in an effort to show the front office that he doesn't share the same beliefs as his brother. If he doesn't play, its because he doesn't feel like the team has done enough, if he does play, then its rushing back. Its a no win situation.
i think d-rose is a leader and has proven enough that even if he was poping off like this it would be taken in stride , but the fact remains it wasn't him it was his brother and no one can really hold him responsible for what another grown man does. all people can do is speculate but being that rose is still pretty young he is probably just burning to get on the court and play again and it really has no bearing on anything , he is already doing 5 on 5's







Quote:
The problem with this is that they don't share the same vision. The Bulls think they are good as is, they are positioning themselves to be players in the 2014 NBA Free Agency (We all have seen this before) and they believe that Mirotic is a big asset (Still a big unknown IMO). What I find funny is that this teams goal all along was to not pay the luxury tax,and they even failed at that goal.
i think bulls management does share this vision that they have a minimal chance but they love their acquired core so much and a reluctant to change course because they see it as a admittance making wrong decisions add that to clear a risk aversion personality the franchise has clearly taken post-krause and we see the result ...a constant changing over of the roster to build through the draft(safe picks) and attempt at a big name free agent, and when it doesn't work rinse, repeat.


Quote:
No Tom Thibodeau team will ever "tank" it. I honestly think maybe the Bulls tried to tank by signing Marco, Nate, Vlad Rad and Muhammad, but they have overachieved. What they should have done was trade Noah at the peak of his game right now. The guy will never have a higher trade value IMO. The Bulls need to understand and accept what he is and also look forward and be very aware of his chronic plantar problem. I'll take my chances down the road with a high draft pick and the potential of a guy like Anthony Bennet and Mirotic over 3 more years of we know what we have in Noah.
[/QUOTE]

thibs is a great coach...but his job is what garpax tells him , if they rebuild and tomT is told to develop talent than that is his job, right now its to win games and he is doing that. instead of marco nate vlad and nazr they could have just as easily have signed young guys who needed to be developed perhaps with a higher ceiling for the long term, they choose to go safe for less and thibs coached the hell out of them.

i would be reluctant to trade noah because he is a legit star at his position(top 7) which actually makes him underpaid boozer and deng do not fit this description, he is also the youngest and at center will likely have the most longevity, he could be effective for 7-10 more years. but i see him as a 3rd-4th wheel on a title team not there for points but for hustle, defense smart play most title teams dont pay 13 mil for that but its not a killer ....paying 13 mil for inefficient scoring is a problem and that is where deng and boozer come in.

there are guys you get to be good enough and there are guys you get to win it all and the bulls management is unwilling to part with one to get the other.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

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Originally Posted by thebizkit69u View Post
The Bulls have failed to build a title contending team around Rose, that's just a fact.
It's not a fact, actually. Vegas would certainly disagree, and that's a disinterested market. A healthy Bulls roster is a top 4 team in the NBA (OKC, San Antonio, Miami, Bulls). I would probably rank them #4 out of those 4, but it's a contender. It's just not the favorite.


Quote:

Deng and Noah aren't really All-Star caliber players, they are just good players.
I think the more fair thing to say is there's a difference between being an All-Star and being an All-Star starter. Deng and Noah (and to me, especially Noah) are All-Star players. They are not, however, All-Star starters. Or, to put it another one, they aren't All-NBA 1st or 2nd team type of guys, particularly.

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The Bulls style of play works great in the regular season, but in the playoffs we saw time and time again the Bulls leaning heavily on their 6'3 PG for all the offense.
This I think is the biggest issue. The Bulls need somebody besides Derrick who can create and get his own shot. When the game slows down to a grind in the playoffs, the Bulls' weaknesses manifest more clearly.

Another way to look at it: the Bulls are ridiculously high up in the NBA rankings of assisted baskets. That sounds great. And on some level, it is. The Bulls really move and share the ball. They are inclusive. They are selfless. But, this also shows you that there aren't guys on the roster who excel at creating their own shots, i.e. unassisted baskets. On some level, the Bulls play selflessly out of sheer necessity. Anything else wouldn't get wins with this roster. I think we all agree this team needs another guy that can be selfish (in a good way) when the team needs a bucket.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:06 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

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Originally Posted by Da Grinch View Post
thibs is a great coach...but his job is what garpax tells him , if they rebuild and tomT is told to develop talent than that is his job, right now its to win games and he is doing that. instead of marco nate vlad and nazr they could have just as easily have signed young guys who needed to be developed perhaps with a higher ceiling for the long term, they choose to go safe for less and thibs coached the hell out of them.
Actually a GM has no place in telling a coach how to coach. Maybe you can get away with it, with a younger head coach but not with a highly paid and highly respected guy like Thibs.

Quote:
i would be reluctant to trade noah because he is a legit star at his position(top 7) which actually makes him underpaid boozer and deng do not fit this description, he is also the youngest and at center will likely have the most longevity, he could be effective for 7-10 more years. but i see him as a 3rd-4th wheel on a title team not there for points but for hustle, defense smart play most title teams dont pay 13 mil for that but its not a killer ....paying 13 mil for inefficient scoring is a problem and that is where deng and boozer come in.

there are guys you get to be good enough and there are guys you get to win it all and the bulls management is unwilling to part with one to get the other.
Well the bar is set pretty low to be a top 7 center in today's NBA. But don't be so sure about Noah's longevity, the guy is hurt every season and is having foot problems 2 years in a row now. That's not a positive when projecting how many more quality years you are going to get out of him.
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:28 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

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Originally Posted by jnrjr79 View Post
It's not a fact, actually. Vegas would certainly disagree, and that's a disinterested market. A healthy Bulls roster is a top 4 team in the NBA (OKC, San Antonio, Miami, Bulls). I would probably rank them #4 out of those 4, but it's a contender. It's just not the favorite.
Again, the Bulls haven't even come close to playing in the Finals... The fact stands, they are NOT a title contending team.

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I think the more fair thing to say is there's a difference between being an All-Star and being an All-Star starter. Deng and Noah (and to me, especially Noah) are All-Star players. They are not, however, All-Star starters. Or, to put it another one, they aren't All-NBA 1st or 2nd team type of guys, particularly.
There is just such a huge disparity between the All-Star starters and reserves that I can't just sit here and say that Noah and Deng are 2 of the best 12 players in the entire conference. They are all-stars by name but their impacts aren't necessarily All-Star esque, if you know what I mean.

Quote:
Another way to look at it: the Bulls are ridiculously high up in the NBA rankings of assisted baskets. That sounds great. And on some level, it is. The Bulls really move and share the ball. They are inclusive. They are selfless. But, this also shows you that there aren't guys on the roster who excel at creating their own shots, i.e. unassisted baskets. On some level, the Bulls play selflessly out of sheer necessity. Anything else wouldn't get wins with this roster. I think we all agree this team needs another guy that can be selfish (in a good way) when the team needs a bucket.
Not going to happen unless some moves are made. As much as Garpax is all hot and bothered about Mirotic, there is NO guarantee that he will be that player if/when he ever gets here. The Bulls are in need of a shakeup, the problem is the FO doesn't have the ability to make it happen.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Ruh Roh: Reggie Rose Rips Bulls FO

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Actually a GM has no place in telling a coach how to coach. Maybe you can get away with it, with a younger head coach but not with a highly paid and highly respected guy like Thibs.



Well the bar is set pretty low to be a top 7 center in today's NBA. But don't be so sure about Noah's longevity, the guy is hurt every season and is having foot problems 2 years in a row now. That's not a positive when projecting how many more quality years you are going to get out of him.
Tom Thibodeau is paid to do a job , not of his own choosing but of his bosses, he can accept or quit , but his job is dictated to him by garpax , not the other way around.

projections go by wear and tear vs age and how many games noah is playing...no one retires because of a sore foot(plantar faciatis) so this is unlikely to shorten his career at all...probably the opposite.
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