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Old 02-24-2013, 05:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Informal Survey: Rose at SG

With how shallow the SG pool is in the NBA today, I have to wonder if the Bulls should consider playing Rose more at SG in the near future. Probably not this year but as soon as next year perhaps.

I know alot of people are against it, but Rose has put on alot of muscle and you know will be able to use his scoring talents more freely from the 2-spot. And that position continues to shrink around the league in search of better talent with so few 6'6+ guys who can both shoot and handle the ball. Even if we did find one, it's gonna cost more than what we can pay with strict luxury tax penalities, etc.

I just have to imagine we'll have an easier time finding a talented PG to play alongside Rose, and for a cheaper cost. This also has the benefit of taking ballhandling pressures away from Rose, and he won't need to expend so much energy with on-ball defense. Heck, if Marquis Teague's talents pan out, that could be his backcourt mate potentially...Marquis can already defend at an NBA level, is very fast with the ball, and has shown some flashes of being a good distributor; it's just his youth holding him back, otherwise he is lottery talent. If not him, I'm sure we could find someone else that fits the bill.

My one thing with this is, Derrick needs to learn how to play off the ball. I believe he needs to learn this anyways to become a more complete player.

So how about it, are we doing Derrick a major disservice by exploring him playing SG at least during stretches, or does this have bad idea written all over it? Without seeing it tested out I can't really decide, just wanted to throw the argument out there.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Informal Survey: Rose at SG

Quote:
Originally Posted by yodurk View Post
With how shallow the SG pool is in the NBA today, I have to wonder if the Bulls should consider playing Rose more at SG in the near future. Probably not this year but as soon as next year perhaps.

I know alot of people are against it, but Rose has put on alot of muscle and you know will be able to use his scoring talents more freely from the 2-spot. And that position continues to shrink around the league in search of better talent with so few 6'6+ guys who can both shoot and handle the ball. Even if we did find one, it's gonna cost more than what we can pay with strict luxury tax penalities, etc.

I just have to imagine we'll have an easier time finding a talented PG to play alongside Rose, and for a cheaper cost. This also has the benefit of taking ballhandling pressures away from Rose, and he won't need to expend so much energy with on-ball defense. Heck, if Marquis Teague's talents pan out, that could be his backcourt mate potentially...Marquis can already defend at an NBA level, is very fast with the ball, and has shown some flashes of being a good distributor; it's just his youth holding him back, otherwise he is lottery talent. If not him, I'm sure we could find someone else that fits the bill.

My one thing with this is, Derrick needs to learn how to play off the ball. I believe he needs to learn this anyways to become a more complete player.

So how about it, are we doing Derrick a major disservice by exploring him playing SG at least during stretches, or does this have bad idea written all over it? Without seeing it tested out I can't really decide, just wanted to throw the argument out there.
It doesn't change the fact that the Bulls need another superstar playing next to Rose to win a title. Even if Rose was moved to the 2, who is going to play the 1? Also, with a player like Rose hes always going to need the ball in his hands. The best players in the game rarely change their games, Lebron has and still is ball dominant, Kobe has and always will be ball dominant, etc.

Also, even if they moved him to the 2, you have to find the right 1 that will mesh with Roses game. Its not as simple as putting Rose next to Hinrich and its not as simple as saying well lets put him next to a guy like Brandon Jennings. The Bulls would need to pair him with someone like Mike Conley or another PG who is a floor general who is a dead eye shooter and doesn't need the ball to create offense. Not an easy task for a front office that can't even sign a high caliber Free Agent.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Informal Survey: Rose at SG

I rather have Rose deal with defending PG's like Paul and Rondo than deal with SG's like Kobe or Joe Johnson.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Informal Survey: Rose at SG

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Originally Posted by thebizkit69u View Post
It doesn't change the fact that the Bulls need another superstar playing next to Rose to win a title. Even if Rose was moved to the 2, who is going to play the 1? Also, with a player like Rose hes always going to need the ball in his hands. The best players in the game rarely change their games, Lebron has and still is ball dominant, Kobe has and always will be ball dominant, etc.

Also, even if they moved him to the 2, you have to find the right 1 that will mesh with Roses game. Its not as simple as putting Rose next to Hinrich and its not as simple as saying well lets put him next to a guy like Brandon Jennings. The Bulls would need to pair him with someone like Mike Conley or another PG who is a floor general who is a dead eye shooter and doesn't need the ball to create offense. Not an easy task for a front office that can't even sign a high caliber Free Agent.
Fair arguments, I am just saying that to get anything close to a superstar, we are most likely to get that guy as another PG, which is really the deepest position in the league right now.

So to capitalize on that, Rose would have to play SG.

Let's say we snagged Kemba Walker for example, the guy isn't even a top 10 PG but would almost certainly upgrade our starting lineup with more dynamic talent.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Informal Survey: Rose at SG

my druthers would be for a big pg who can bring the ball up and spot up and defend 2's...but they are on the rare side.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Informal Survey: Rose at SG

Rose is so dangerous with the ball in his hands. He is fast and strong. He can drive and shoot. He takes so much attention defensively. I am not sure if I want to take the ball out of Rose's hands. The Bulls definitely don't need a superstar SG but need someone who can shoot, defend a bit, and handle the ball 5-10 MPG. There are those players available but the Bulls just don't want to pay for one. It is obvious that the Bulls need another superstar (or just a star) next to Rose. They are just reluctant financially.

One can argue that you don't trade just to trade. However, we all know that we are not as good as Miami. With the current roster, we are running in place unless one of our players blows it up and becomes a superstar. VERY UNLIKELY.

Financially, we are capped out. We can't sign anyone outright. The very obvious way to improve the team is go over the cap via a trade.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:03 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Informal Survey: Rose at SG

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Originally Posted by PD View Post
Rose is so dangerous with the ball in his hands. He is fast and strong. He can drive and shoot. He takes so much attention defensively. I am not sure if I want to take the ball out of Rose's hands. The Bulls definitely don't need a superstar SG but need someone who can shoot, defend a bit, and handle the ball 5-10 MPG. There are those players available but the Bulls just don't want to pay for one. It is obvious that the Bulls need another superstar (or just a star) next to Rose. They are just reluctant financially.

One can argue that you don't trade just to trade. However, we all know that we are not as good as Miami. With the current roster, we are running in place unless one of our players blows it up and becomes a superstar. VERY UNLIKELY.

Financially, we are capped out. We can't sign anyone outright. The very obvious way to improve the team is go over the cap via a trade.
I just don't see it (tading for a star) happening for a few reasons.

1. The FO doesn't have the vision to lock on a potential target and say "He is the missing piece", and they lack the skill to go after said player with the mindset of "We are getting him, its just a matter of when and not if".

2. Everything we have seen so far shows us that they are building towards another free agency run. They aren't trading for anyone, in order to keep themselves cap flexible.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Informal Survey: Rose at SG

Quote:
Originally Posted by PD View Post
Rose is so dangerous with the ball in his hands. He is fast and strong. He can drive and shoot. He takes so much attention defensively. I am not sure if I want to take the ball out of Rose's hands. The Bulls definitely don't need a superstar SG but need someone who can shoot, defend a bit, and handle the ball 5-10 MPG. There are those players available but the Bulls just don't want to pay for one. It is obvious that the Bulls need another superstar (or just a star) next to Rose. They are just reluctant financially.

One can argue that you don't trade just to trade. However, we all know that we are not as good as Miami. With the current roster, we are running in place unless one of our players blows it up and becomes a superstar. VERY UNLIKELY.

Financially, we are capped out. We can't sign anyone outright. The very obvious way to improve the team is go over the cap via a trade.
Not that I disagree, but the point isn't to take the ball out of his hands, it is to reduce his overall workload, as well as to make him a more well rounded threat. With his speed/shiftiness and strength, there is no reason he shouldn't learn to play off the ball better anyways (and I say that independent of the SG argument, he should work on that irregardless). The way things are, he is the only guy who handles the ball on a consistent basis. It is both predictable to opponents and puts a ton of pressure on one guy to do everything. If Rose were just a playmaker like Rondo then that might be OK, but he is also our #1 scorer...
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:43 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Informal Survey: Rose at SG

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebizkit69u View Post
I just don't see it (tading for a star) happening for a few reasons.

1. The FO doesn't have the vision to lock on a potential target and say "He is the missing piece", and they lack the skill to go after said player with the mindset of "We are getting him, its just a matter of when and not if".

2. Everything we have seen so far shows us that they are building towards another free agency run. They aren't trading for anyone, in order to keep themselves cap flexible.
2014 isn't exactly my favorite option either but let's not forget cap space also allows you to absorb big contracts from other teams. So technically it could help us acquire a big time player via trade. I have to imagine Kevin Love is the #1 target. Love and the Wolves front office are already at odds, and we know he would love to play with Rose. He could easily force his way into a trade, and IMO it is for situations like this why the Bulls have assembled a bunch of assets.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:20 AM   #10 (permalink)
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KLove in the same front court as Noah would be electric on the glass. How would other teams get a rebound?
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:48 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Informal Survey: Rose at SG

My basic issue with playing Rose at the 2 is that I am of the belief that you put yourself at a disadvantage playing with an undersized backcourt. It limits what you can do defensively... and for as much as Rose has proven himself to be an incredible talent, I don't think "ability to guard 2 guards" is one of the skills that really jumps off the page for him. We saw the problems we had with the Hinrich/Gordon/Duhon backcourts of the mid '00's... guys like Rip Hamilton, Michael Redd and Joe Johnson had a field day with our undersized guards. Rose is obviously better than all of those guys and I suppose if you put him next to a point guard that was able to guard 2's, or just so supremely talented that the benefits outweighed the negatives it might work, but I don't like the odds.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:55 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Informal Survey: Rose at SG

Will we see more of it? Yeah, I think so, particularly when Rose is paired with Hinrich and even more particularly when Rose is being defended by a PG who is also a potent scorer (e.g., Paul or Westbrook). With Hinrich, I can see the two of them sharing the ballhandling load and running some sets that have Rose running his defender through some hard screens like they did with Korver and do with Hamilton and Belinelli. However, with Hinrich, I think Derrick will still defend the PG. In any case, I see this as more of a change of pace than a steady diet.
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:38 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Informal Survey: Rose at SG

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Originally Posted by transplant View Post
Will we see more of it? Yeah, I think so, particularly when Rose is paired with Hinrich and even more particularly when Rose is being defended by a PG who is also a potent scorer (e.g., Paul or Westbrook). With Hinrich, I can see the two of them sharing the ballhandling load and running some sets that have Rose running his defender through some hard screens like they did with Korver and do with Hamilton and Belinelli. However, with Hinrich, I think Derrick will still defend the PG. In any case, I see this as more of a change of pace than a steady diet.

Given that Hinrich will be back next year, I tend to agree we're going to see it in spurts. You read repeatedly that the Bulls wanted a "combo guard" this offseason, and I have to assume that was at least in part because they contemplating having that person play next to Rose at times.

That said, I think it will be a bit more of a matchups-based determination in how long they roll with options like that. Depending on whether either of Rip or Marco is back (or some other two guard is signed), you may have a lot of instances where you'd rather roll with Jimmy B next to Rose than Kirk.

In the long-term, I don't think you do it as a starting backcourt, most likely. What seems more likely is simply signing a two guard with good handle who can take some of the distribution duties away from Rose. Even if you went with Rose at the two, he's a ball in his hands type of player. So, you might have a scenario like the old dynasty Bulls where your nominal PG wasn't actually the primary guy charged with bringing the ball up the floor.
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:59 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Informal Survey: Rose at SG

Rose can definitely play SG. He is athletic enough to handle almost any SG on defense and he has the scoring ability of a SG.

It only would make sense to slide him to the 2 if we can find a very VERY solid true PG. Definitely not a scoring PG. The only players I can think of that would even be worth the effort of Rose transitioning is Rondo or Chris Paul. However, I don't see us acquiring either player and Rondo just tore his ACL.

Therefore, Derrick Rose is going to be a PG for the foreseeable future, which most likely will be sometime in late October, 2013.

I'd rather see Hinrich transition to SG.
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