TucsonClip

Ok, well you try and convince everyone in the NBA and those who voted that Nash is only putting up these numbers because of more possessions. You just told me that he plays less minutes then every one of the MVP candidates, so its not like he is in for all these extra possessions. Not to mention his teammates still need to make shots. The key word shots, because about half of his assists come on 3 pointers alone.

Yeah Dirk and LeBron had injury issues on their team, but Nash is playing with 10 new players and the injury to Amare was more devistating then any injury to the Cavs or Mavs. I fail to see why the team argument is weak. If Kobe leads the Lakers to the #2 seed and 54 wins while scoring 35 I am positive he wins MVP.

I dont ever recall saying anything of the sort. Terry is a solid PG who fits in perfectly with Dallas' offense and defense.

Like I said defensive stats dont win you MVPs, they help but they do not win you MVPs and being outplayed by other PGs is the same thing. We will tally the 1st place votes and I gurantee if you ask anyone who voted him 1st or second, even third cares how poorly Nash defends people like you do.

Really? No kidding, I dont know where you guys get the idea that Nash winning the MVP makes him the best player in the NBA. Not to mention I never said anywhere I would take Nash over any of the MVP candidates, in fact I said I would take all of them over Nash.

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DQ for 3

I agree...Nash or Kobe is the MVP, followed by Mr. James.

Nash has been the leader of the show for the past 6 top scoring teams....that's no coincidence that he should be the MVP.

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Pioneer10

You would think that his less minutes would make his per possesions numbers but they don't: that's how fast a game Phoenix game plays versus other teams


Marion, Diaw, Barbaso, and Kurt Thomas wouldn't all be starters on the Lakers: news to me. Wins are measure of team performance and not just an individual. Like I stated previously: many players pre and post Nash have done well in Phoenix. Dallas has just done fine w/o Nash. This team argument which is weak is also very important for Nash because his number including measures of impact (net +/-) don't favor Nash at all (Wade, Kobe, Lebron, and Dirk ALL are ahead of him)


Amazing what a system can do for a player isn't it? And you missed the sarcasm that an above average (i.e. just not quite All-Star) playercan fill easily a CONSECUTIVE MVP shoes to the point that the team actually does better.



Again read what you're saying the NBA's Most Valuable Player wouldn't even be picked by a handful of GM ahead of not just one but MULTIPLE players. The defense is particularly important because Nash has been dominated by other PG's this season. Nash is the MVP when he routinely gets outplayed by the other best players at his position?

So lets list em off:
1) He gets dominated by other top PG's in the league
2) His overall and per possesion stats don't compare to the big 4 (Wade, Lebron, Kobe, or Dirk)
3) Marion, Diaw, Barbaso, Thomas each would start on the Cavs or Lakers. Yet Nash get more credit then Lebron or Kobe who have also lead there teams to the playoffs
4) His +/- indicating team impact is again lower then the Big 4

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Morongk22

Originally Posted by Morongk22
Hinrich---15/6
Knight---12/8
Ridnour----11/7

Yes I think there assist numbers go up 1-2 more per game, Suns still win 50ish games still get the 2 seed, still beat the Lakers in the first round.

The average NBA team gets 20-25 assists per game and a decent pg gets 5-7 apg. Pheonix is arguably the 4th/5th best team in the league if you take someone else like Hinrich or B Knight and put them on a team that shoots that well their stats would go be higher.

Which goes back to what i said earlier, and made you think i was a "moron".
Nash had 10 of 26 assists per game for Pheonix
Suns shot----48%/40%(3pt)----7,202 shots
Hinrich had 6 of 22 per game for Chicago
Bulls shot---45%/38%(3pt)---6,738 shots
B. Knight had 8 of 20 per game for Charlotte
Bobcats shot---43%/34%(3pt)---6,812 shots
Ridnour had 7 of 20 per game for Seattle
Sonics shot---46%/37%(3pt)---6,638 shots

If a team averages 87 shots per game someone is getting those assists.

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TucsonClip

Well I guess this all comes down to your definition of MVP. The way it sounds to me is that your MVP should be the best overall player in the NBA, which Nash is not. My MVP is the one who is the most important to their team, puts up very good stats, and leads his team to wins. Kobe didnt win enough, LeBron did win enough, Dirk didnt get the hype he deserved, and Wade will always be shadowed by Shaq (which is completely assanine). I am 100% positive that if the Cavs had the Suns record, LeBron would be MVP and the same goes for Kobe. I do not see how you can say team accomplishments do not matter, because they do.


You missed my statement that Dallas has MORE talent now then they did when Nash was in Dallas.

Like I said you think the MVP is the best player in the NBA. Newsflash, the MVP is not always the best player in the NBA and he wasnt last year either.

Maybe we should conduct a poll in the NBA general board about wether or not Nash deserves MVP consideration, because he cant play defense. I gurantee you nobody cares that he cant defend and the voters who voted for him this year and last year prove my statement.

The Wizards like to run that weave in order to get LeBron one on one at the top of the key against a guard, then they take him to the rack. So does that make LeBron even the slightest bit less worthy of MVP consideration, because teams know to attack him on defense or to put him on the foul line late in the game? Of course not.


With those 4 its pick your poison, because they can do it all. With Steve Nash its, hey look at the guys who have averaged 10+ assists per game for a season, Steve Nash is on the list twice. But I guess that isnt good enough, because he is a PG and doesnt pull down 8 boards per game and isnt a good defender, and is a product of the system. However, he sure as hell can lead his team with 10 new players on the roster to 2nd in the west and 54 wins, without his best player.

He gets more credit, because he is dishing out 10.5 assists per game and leading his team to 54 wins. Yeah im sure they could start on those teams, but they still won more games and he shouldnt be penalized for players on his team developing into how they should be playing. Diaw couldnt even start on the Hawks half the time last season.

Fine thats great, I said I wouldnt have a problem with Kobe, LeBron, or Nash winning MVP. However, people who say Nash does not deserve the award are just upset that thier favorite player didnt win. Like it or not, you are bitter about Nash winning it over LeBron and im sure you will say you are bitter abot him winning over Kobe, Wade, and Dirk as well.

I thought Kobe would win it, and LeBron would come in 3rd. If anyone deserves the award more then Nash it is Kobe, but you arent going to hear him complain about Nash winning, because he knows how good Nash is and how hard it is to win games without your best player.

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TucsonClip

im not even going to comment much on this, because you know how I feel since you were typing this directly behind me in our room. As I said earlier, those number are like saying Kobe and Jordan could team up and almost singlehandedly beat teams by combining for 70 a game.

In your scenario, Barbosa would play more time at PG, because none of the players mentioned are anywhere near Steve Nash. You also have to take into account that in order to stop the Suns offense in this scenario a team would focus on defending the PG, becuase in thier offense the PG is the most important position and creates for everyone on the floor.

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Pioneer10

You don't see the logical inconsistencies of you're argument? Kobe and Lebron are more valuable to there team then Nash is too the Suns and even Dirk is more important to Dallas (the +/- and stats all points to this plus MINUTES played).

Then you bring team record into blithfully disregard Dirk's reason for not winning as a matter of hype? Dirk put up better numbers on a better team but the reason he didn't win it because of hype: that's a joke right there. In terms of team record you continue to not mention how Marion, Diaw, Barbaso, and Thomas would all be starters on the Cavs and Lakers - team record is a team accomplishment. Nash plays less minutes and has a worse +/- then either Kobe, Lebron, or Dirk so his responsibility for that team record are less then those 3



And you continue to ignore the fact that just because of Amare is hurt and they've had turnover that Phoenix is still a darn talented team (well at least Thomas got hurt - and there record has sucked since but no one mentions this because it takes away from the Nash makes the Suns argument)

Newsflash Nash is a maybe barely a top 5 player in the league and he's just won two consectutive MVP's; you don't think that should be a consideration


Getting MVP consideration is FAR different then winning the MVP. A lot of players get MVP consideration who have no business winning the MVP


How can you equate one play versus overall defense? Lebron is not a great defender but he has not once been dominated by another SF like Nash has been done by other PG's (He's been possibly outplayed but has not been compltely dominated). You also might want to look at for example Jamison's stat line for game 1 where Lebron was on him. The defensive PER also shows taht both Kobe and Lebron force there opponents to below average production: Nash doesn't do that. He has been routinely outplayed by even average PG's (Bell, Livingston for example)




Again you ignore the per possesion numbers and refuse to acknowledge even w/o Amare that the Suns have plenty of talent. The Suns are great at finding talent before and after Nash


Players don't break out every year? Just like Joe Johnson did the year before Nash arrived. He gets more credit wrongly because people think the rest of the Suns are scrubs when 4 of em would START on either the Cavs or Lakers. Better overall team = Better record. You have been unable to even point out even one stat that shows that somehow Nash impacts the Suns more then Lebron, Kobe, or Dirk

I'm not bitter about Lebron losing as I have no problem with Dirk or Kobe winning for example. It's a travesty though that a player who is not even remotely close to being the best player in the league AND did not have a better season then players betterh them him won it. And the Kobe won't complain argument is a joke: if he was a poster who could post anonymously he would say he deserved MVP ahead of Nash and rightfully so.

In fact you're arguments for Nash this season should have made Ray Allen MVP last year. A team that unexecpetdly had a good year despite predictions of a bad record and got production from players like A. Daniels who didn't necessarily play to there ability. Yet Ray didn't win last year.

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Larry Hughes for Retirement

This thread is getting retarded, i dont even wanna read peoples post because they are like Novels and its getting to the end of the semester, which makes me not wanna read.

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