Goubot

I really hate this quote system.

This is partly a question of chemistry. He knows where Rip's sweet spots are, he can kick it out to Sheed for 3s, and he hasn't done badly to feed Webber. He wasn't a great passer when he started out here, but he's gotten much better over the years. It helps that he's had so much time to get to know his teammates, but he has become a good passer, better than most PGs.

Yeah, he played with Iverson last year? So? He did get 20 and 10, but he was primarily a jumpshooter, and not a good one. He probably hurt the team's offense by shooting so much, especially since he rarely got to the line. Here, we can slow down, feed him in the post and he can use his smarts to make moves around the basket instead of being primarily a jumpshooter, and his passing has given us a balanced attack.

I agree that some parts we have could be well suited for an uptempo attack. Rip's game wouldn't change all that much, and Prince could probably do well also. But playing fast doesn't necessarily make you a good offensive team. We played slow last year and we still knocked people out offensively. It's a common thought since Phoenix plays fast and they have a high octane offense, but few of the teams that have tried to follow their example (Toronto at the beginning of the year, Golden State) have had that much success, even offensively. Toronto played much better after they dropped the Phoenix-like system, and even though Golden State plays fast, they are completely unable to get to the line.

There's no defending anyone besides Prince in last year's playoffs. Rip was shooting near 50% for the season and that dipped to close to 40, Chauncey's three point shooting took a dive, as did his assist numbers, Sheed just wasn't the same after getting injured. Ben Wallace was just a disaster. Again, I can't see you putting it all on him, because no one performed up to par. And that may shake your trust in that player a bit, but why Billups exclusively? Saunders should also get his fair share of the blame, since he failed to make any sort of adjustments and lost control of the team after a while as well. Fact is, shots just weren't falling for anyone, blaming Billups alone is kind of pointless. If this were to happen again and if it were easily attributed to Billups alone, I think you might have a case.

In some games, Billups is able to switch with Rip so that Rip can cover quicker guards while Billups takes on stronger ones. His All-defense reputation might be a little overblown, as he has looked a step slow on defense sometimes, but he does do a good job on stronger guards. Sadly, we don't have the luxury of Big Ben when our perimeter defenders make mistakes, but I think you might be exaggerating a bit here.

We play slow, probably among the slowest in the league. Milwaukee plays relatively fast. They have more possessions to accumulate stats with.

And if he dominates the ball less, that makes the fact that he turns the ball over more much worse. It means he's turning the ball over with less responsibility than Chauncey. Billups is great at taking care of the ball, Williams this year... really hasn't been (what is it, 3 a game?). We're the best team in the league at avoiding turnovers, and Billups is a big part of that.

As for scoring, when you take account free throw attempts, Billups is vastly more efficient. Williams gets 18.6 points off 16.1 shot attempts, and he takes 3.3 free throws a game. Billups scores 17.7 points off 12 shots, and he gets to the line 6.6 times a game. So he basically scores basically as much while taking four fewer shot attempts and geting to the line twice as much, all that in a slower paced system. Like I said, drawing fouls is a use of an offensive possession. Williams shoots better from the field but he doesn't get to the line all that much.

He's a career 39% from 3s, and he takes several a game. Last year he shot better from 3s (43%?) than he did from the field in general. Billups can shoot. Granted, this year, his three shot has been a little off, but that should recover. He's also made it up a little by finishing shots close up. Last year, he blew a lot of layups in close, but those have been falling this year.

Sometimes silly internet basketball debates can get heated, just wanted to make sure that didn't happen.

I've spent too much time on this, I have to study, sadly.

JoeD

I didn't mean we had to become Phoenix, but as you said, we are one of the very slowest paced teams in the league, and there are times we could benefit from playing that way, without totally changing into a mostly fast paced team, or Phoenix.

Ben isn't here anymore, I definitely was not happy with his performance (I could probably find a bunch of posts by me on this point after we got knocked out ). Rasheed was injured, so he gets more of a pass. McDyess played well up until injuring his hand half way against Miami or whenever that was.

After watching McDyess almost save us from the disaster that was game 5 against Cleveland, I wanted him to start. Tayshaun agreed we should have been going to McDyess more as well. His back to back blocks and baskets were fantastic that game. Getting a bit OT with that but the memory really sticks out, along with him sitting on the bench staring angrily not talking to anyone after the game. The only thing that held McDyess back was Saunders.

Saunders was horrible. His adjustments took forever to come. His rotation flat out sucked. He was playing the starters late into the blow out vs. Cleveland in game one. Wasn't playing McDyess when he played well. Wasn't utilizing Hunter, and worst of all wasn't using him against Wade.

Rip also was bad, as you said.

So I definitely don't just blame Chauncey. But if Chauncey is supposed to be the leader on this team he has to take the criticism. We're talking about locking ourselves up with him for a crippling amount of cap room, and doing it right after he shows a huge decline in the playoffs and hasn't proved himself again.

Also, NONE of those others made excuses and said they didn't really care about losing. I'm surprised I'm the only one this bothers.
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Well Chauncey is the one who takes the free throws when the other team intentionally fouls. If Chauncey wasn't it, it would be Rip, who has almost as good of a percentage. I don't think Williams takes them for Milwaukee, even though his % is 4 less than Chauncey's. Chauncey also shoots the techs and the three second violations. Chauncey probably is better at drawing fouls, but not as much as it seems when you take everything into account.

There was actually a thread on him being the most undeserving FT shooter in the league on the general board from 82games.com

I don't think it is good to bet on these things. Going back to the playoffs last season, it has been a long time since he was a good shooter. Given what he does now and what his career numbers are, last year looks more like a fluke. Especially considering his attitude.

I don't think Chauncey has a good attitude, or is hungry. If he was I might think he would work hard and come back, but I don't he is that type. In fact this is one of the reasons I expect him to decline. His age and attitude.

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Amir Johnson will be better than Al Horford

Goubot

This isn't something I've heard, but I sort of tuned out basketball after we lost that series.

Anyway, as far as techs and intentional fouling goes, there's only so many of those a game, honestly. He's talked before in interviews about how being in the bonus has made him more likely to attack the basket and try to draw a foul. It is odd, because he's not the kind of player who seems intuitively likely to shoot so many free throws since he doesn't attack the basket that much. On the other hand, Billups is strong, so when he does make moves towards the basket, he can usually take contact. Point is, despite Williams' jets, he's still mostly a jumpshooter, and he ends up using more possessions to get his points than Billups does.

kamego

We are getting a bit of point this thread. How much money does Billups make with the Pistons next season? He is going to be around.

I think 13 million would be a good starting point cap wise and with a possible front-load for acutal payment. I think he has to atleast be worth what Sheed makes.

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DePaul Basketball

Piston Forum - Atleast we can't get in trouble for paying Cwebb this time

Boycotting the Detroit Lions since the 2007 NFL Draft