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View Poll Results: What is your religion?
Jewish 1 5.26%
Christian 6 31.58%
Wiccan 0 0%
Bhuddist 1 5.26%
Taoist 1 5.26%
Muslim 1 5.26%
Hindu 0 0%
Atheist 5 26.32%
Scientology 0 0%
Agnostic 2 10.53%
None 2 10.53%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-23-2012, 08:11 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

No, it really didn't. He was the neoconartist of all neoconartists. And gave us loons like Sam Harris, who didn't think that Hitch went far enough in his calls for the destruction of the Muslim world and threw a little nuclear armageddon into the mix (and please don't quote me his passive/aggressive bullshit non-denial denials).
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:37 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

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Originally Posted by 36 Karat View Post
Well the fact of the matter is any reference to a "God" in this thread is more likely to concern the humanly constructed concept of a judicious figure heralded by the (also) humanly constructed churches and their aristocratic leadership, not an ever-present, secular humanism compatible force occupying the universe.
so? the fact that tenents espoused by Christ are essentially socialist and pacifist havent stopped generations of capitalist war mongers from claiming to be christian and doing all manner of ill in his name - not the fault of the tenents, that's all Im saying - dont blame christ for christians or as Nietzsche had it "the last christian died on the cross" and Im not sure that what your saying about the origins of the concept has anything to do with that or anything really

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And your last sentence is ridiculous. Hitchens would classify your statement as one of the many concerning any possible deathbed recantation, which he vehemently denied all the way to the finish line, all the while fielding questions regarding numerous greats (Paine, notably) and their own alleged deathbed recantations, and playing the role of wisdom when history tends to distort itself.
touchy are we? get a sense of humor - I'm actually a Hitchens fan and was being tongue in cheek but while we're at it and since you're acting the ass again this point does not directly address anything previously in question - my comment has nothing to do with deathbed conversions it has to do with metaphysical speculation regarding the 'beyond' - he either feels something or not - he either is or isnt

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But to answer it objectively, Hitchens does not "feel" about religion whatsoever. However, as his extensive amount of earthly writing he left us dictates: he did indeed have incredibly strong feelings of religion when he was still taking breaths.
I tend to find fault with him on this front since he was so vigorously evangelistic about it - also I wonder if this is your only exposure to him, that is through his athiest tracts and ranting - there was a lot more to him I hope you know
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:42 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

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Including Hitchens who was a deranged warmonger. The world dodged a bullet when he decided against political office, he did enough damage as a commentator.
this is a pretty gross simplification and in this age of Limbaugh and his ilk the idea that he did 'damage as a commentator' is a laugh
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:55 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

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So what is it exactly that makes you feel Hitch was, in essence, a deranged warmonger who did damage as a commentator. It seems as if you're implying the world did not benefit at all from Christopher Hitchens.
he was a liberal socialist who turned hawkish on the issue of islam militantism - the seeds of his position on this go back to at least the Rushdie fatwa and Im not altogether sure I disagree with him on principles - he became prointerventionist and supported the wars in afghanistan and iraq - so I guess he's a warmonger

but he was also the guy who personally underwent waterboarding for the pages of Vanity Fair and announced it torture and was openly critical of bush on half a dozen other subjects

as to what damage he did as a commentator I guess emh is against free speech and open debate of ideas because otherwise such a stance is a joke
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:34 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

Huh? I can be in favour of free speech without endorsing everyones ideas. Bill Kristol can write and publish whatever he wants, that does not make him one micrometer less an evil twit whose warmongering has done a great deal to damage the world. Similarly with Hitchens for the last 20 odd years of his life. His crusader nonsense did a great deal to promote the American mindset vis a vis Arabs & muslims, who we pretty openly think of as subhumans (and Americans may not say it sober, but jesus do they ever think this way and act it).
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Old 11-23-2012, 10:25 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

Most people on the internetz are democrats and agnostic or atheist.

I on the other-hand am Agnostic and a democrat.
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:16 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

The world is inherently organized and calculated. It is seemingly endless in complexity; everything works to an exact degree of measurable laws. Yet, it is contrasted with chaotic and randomness that is seen throughout any day. It is incredible to contemplate the human consciousness and how it allows us to sit and discuss our own existence.

I think if there is a case for God, it is from the standpoint that a creator put in place laws that govern us, but he does not interfere with our own choices and circumstances.
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:33 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

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Originally Posted by E.H. Munro View Post
No, it really didn't. He was the neoconartist of all neoconartists. And gave us loons like Sam Harris, who didn't think that Hitch went far enough in his calls for the destruction of the Muslim world and threw a little nuclear armageddon into the mix (and please don't quote me his passive/aggressive bullshit non-denial denials).
"Neoconartist", +1 to labels used against Hitchens by angry conservatives. Hitchens isn't responsible for any alleged 'loons', despite any desire on your part to think as such. You're politicizing him to benefit your own attack.

Speaking of attacks, e-monk jumping to Jesus..

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so? the fact that tenents espoused by Christ are essentially socialist and pacifist havent stopped generations of capitalist war mongers from claiming to be christian and doing all manner of ill in his name - not the fault of the tenents, that's all Im saying - dont blame christ for christians or as Nietzsche had it "the last christian died on the cross" and Im not sure that what your saying about the origins of the concept has anything to do with that or anything really
It'd probably help if you didn't put discussions such as these through your religious filter in conversation. Nowhere in my post did I mention Jesus Christ or any other savior, messiah, Lord, God, Prophet, etc.


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touchy are we? get a sense of humor - I'm actually a Hitchens fan and was being tongue in cheek but while we're at it and since you're acting the ass again this point does not directly address anything previously in question - my comment has nothing to do with deathbed conversions it has to do with metaphysical speculation regarding the 'beyond' - he either feels something or not - he either is or isnt

Yeah, your whole "tongue in cheek" thing wasn't exactly clear. If you go back and look at your writing I think you might agree that it easily could have been considered a question of Hitchen's faith at the very end.

Christopher Hitchens isn't.


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I tend to find fault with him on this front since he was so vigorously evangelistic about it - also I wonder if this is your only exposure to him, that is through his athiest tracts and ranting - there was a lot more to him I hope you know
My only exposure to him? Atheist tracts and ranting? I've read most if not all of his Vanity Fair contributions, as well as countless other submissions to other pieces. I've had the opportunity to read each of his major publications, except for Mortality, his last work.

So you dislike him on the grounds that he's a liberal socialist? That should be hard to do, giving he denounced socialism; stating instead that his view fell more in line with Marxism. Liberal's a stab in the dark given most were labeling him conservative during his final years -- anti-totalitarianism may be a better term.
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:47 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

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"Neoconartist", +1 to labels used against Hitchens by angry conservatives. Hitchens isn't responsible for any alleged 'loons', despite any desire on your part to think as such. You're politicizing him to benefit your own attack.
Huh? I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to the left of you. Much less an angry right-wing warmonger like Hitchens.
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Old 11-23-2012, 11:56 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

^ to be fair, the ghost of Karl Marx just appeared as I read your post and called you a crazy leftist...
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:11 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

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Huh? I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to the left of you. Much less an angry right-wing warmonger like Hitchens.
Nooooooooo you're not. And our relative placements on any sort of political measurement spectrum has nothing to do with any discussion of religion; at least, it shouldn't.

Notice how in the thread that's supposed to be a discussion on the merits of religion or some higher force the conversation has made its way to politics and war. They are each intertwined.

So you're denouncing Hitchens as a warmonger based on his support of the war in Iraq, I presume, yet in another recent thread you were praising Bush on his approach to civil liberties (all while claiming to be 'further left' than me). Quite the dichotomy you have happening there.
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:13 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

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"
Speaking of attacks, e-monk jumping to Jesus..

It'd probably help if you didn't put discussions such as these through your religious filter in conversation. Nowhere in my post did I mention Jesus Christ or any other savior, messiah, Lord, God, Prophet, etc.
laugh's on you and so is apparently, the lens - Im not a christian - my metaphysical beliefs would probably most closely adhere to taoism but Im really not in anyone's camp

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Yeah, your whole "tongue in cheek" thing wasn't exactly clear...
that's your lens again, to wit:

Quote:
So you dislike him on the grounds that he's a liberal socialist?
seeing as what I said was that what I didnt like about him was his evangelistic atheism but that I was otherwise a fan

seems like you've been making a lot of assumptions from the beginning about what I think and not reading what I've written so stop with the projecting
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:17 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

Seems like you struggle with reading and rebuttals.

You yourself said he was a "liberal socialist". You said that, it's in print. That is not me assuming or projecting anything.
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:18 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

An EH Munro fight thread.

Never saw it coming.....
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:22 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Re: What is your religion?

Yeah this is probably gonna get real shitty real quick.

e-monk, so let's pretend then that you didn't state his liberal socialism (through your lens, to wit) as a cause for disliking him. So you dislike him based on his evangelical atheism? You're disliking someone based on their beliefs, not their character?

I don't care if you're a Christian, Taoist or what have you. This is a matter of ignorance.
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