Children, gunman dead in Conn. elementary school shooting - Page 10 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

**R-Star** · 12-15-2012, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dornado

The idea that religion being further institutionalized would reduce violence is laughable and ignores almost the entirety of world history.

And on the subject of people being able to "sit out" of morning prayers... easily said... but as an agnostic who felt uncomfortable having to say "under god" in the pledge of allegiance I still felt compelled to say it as a kid because everyone else in the class was... I can't imagine being the one kid out of 30 in a classroom who is forced to sit it out and face potential ridicule or be ostracized by classmates because dipshits like Mike Huckabee want to change school into church. Is it that hard that our government institutions remain neutral on the subject of religion? The constitution demands as much.

Anyway, **** Mike Huckabee and his political opportunism.

The problem is, if it stopped there that's fine. But now you don't even do the anthem before school starts, at least not in Canada.

Because it might offend some people...... who are from another country but now live here.

The problem I have is where does it end? If we'd stop placating I'd be fine with not doing a morning prayer. But the problem is its always pushed further and further to something else that may have a small chance at bothering someone so its taken out.

My wife isn't even allowed to fail kids now. We just had a huge thing in Canada where a teacher gave a kid a 0 on an assignment because even weeks after the due date he refused to hand it in. The teacher lost his job because "Giving 0's isn't our policy."

These aren't related. I'm ranting. It just seems that sometimes I'm viewing society go down the drain, and its all inter connected.

**R-Star** · 12-15-2012, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxIrvingxX

This line really interests me. What exactly is wrong with that? I mean, yea sure, it's a risky move, but if your kid is motivated, and wants to go to college, then why not do everything you can to let them? I don't see anything wrong with that. Hell I'm in college right now and the only thing I was able to use to pay for last semester was a lot of loans, and now the same is going to happen next semester. Now, sure, I did have a 3.7 in high school from sophomore to senior year (freshman year was just a mess, didn't give one ounce of shit at all about my grades and I ended up barely passing my classes), and it was my dream to be in college, but I think that taking out loans for someone to go to college, regardless of whether they barely graduated from high school, or even dropped out of high school, and then went to a community college and get to a 4 year college afterwords, is a big risk to take but usually worth it in the end as long as the person is motivated.

They say college isn't for everyone, from my experience thus far, I think that's true and false at the same time. College not being for you is all based on whether or not you actually want it to be for you. Anyone can make it through college, but you need that determination and strive to make it through to do so.

Plus College isn't cheap, and not to mention those good jobs that you could get coming out of high school no longer exist, so again I think that alone makes this an exception. Just wanted to make that point here.

Now as for the parenting here in America, and whether it's any different from other countries, I honestly can't comment on that because I've never been outside this country before, but I can say with absolute confidence that no matter where you go, whether it's America or France or Canada or Russia or China, you will find people who claim they have questionable parents or people who are screwed up due to the way their parents raised them. So I think saying people are better off being raised outside of America is stupid, yea sure maybe your chances of being raised better are higher, but there's bad parents everywhere.

There are bad parents everywhere. There are psycho's bred everywhere. My view is the American culture helps to breed and raise them with how lax parenting and responsibility in your country has become (yes Nim, Canada isn't far behind).

As far as College, to me its the fact that if you can hardly graduate from high school, maybe you shouldn't be going to college. And you sure as hell shouldn't be taking 10's of thousands of dollars of loans to do so. But once again this boils down to American culture where now everyone has to go to college because you can't get a job otherwise. Which is a complete load of bull because after half of those people graduate they use the "I can't get a job because I'm overqualified" excuse.

You personally had good grades going into college from highschool and are without a doubt working hard at something you've planned out and want to do. But that is different from more than half of my friends and I assume everyone else knows a lot of similar people. They go to college "to go to college" because everyone says you're supposed to, and no one wants to grow up. Most took business, or worse general studies, and not one person had anything come of it other than debt, mostly for their parents. Now they're 4 years behind people like me and use it as an excuse when the bill comes for dinner or drinks, or why they still at 30 don't have their own home.

I didn't go to college because I didn't know what I wanted to do, and I never tried hard at school so I assumed the same would happen in college. There are so many people in the same situation but they go to college because at this point Americans (and Canadians Nim) feel entitled to go to college. Its just something you get to do. You don't have to work hard, or plan what you want to do, no, because going to college is your right as an American.

Long story short, not every single lazy kid needs to go to college. In my eyes its also part of the problem with society.

**Jamel Irief** · 12-15-2012, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-Star

I tweeted Huckabee. I know I won't get a reply, and I know famous people (if you can call him that) don't sit around a read every tweet. But with guys like that you just hope he see its. Because you know deep down Mike Huckabee knows he's a piece of shit. And I don't feel bad reminding him of that.

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with religion in schools. If you don't believe or have a different religion, don't participate in the morning prayer. But Western society seems bent on being progressively liberal when it comes to things like that. Same idea with "Happy holidays" because Christmas is now some sort of bad word because some people don't have the same beliefs and don't celebrate it. Ridiculous.

That being said, having a morning prayer in the public school systems would have changed nothing here. It wouldn't have protected the kids, and the idea that having god mentioned in school would have somehow saved this Adam whatever his name is from turning into a psycho killer is absolutely laughable.

What if we started giving time for Muslims to get on their knees and chant in schools? You don't like it you can sit out?

I don't necessarily have a problem with religion in schools, just that there a ton of religions.

They have private Christian schools. Can't afford them? You can home school. Can't stay home to teach your kids? Maybe you should stop and think if you really can raise kids the way you want to if your only option is public school with no religion.

My wife and I make a combined 6 figure income and no debt. We have no immediate plans for kids because neither of us want to give up other aspects in our life to raise them. I won't knock her up until we can both give our kids all our time and energy they need to raise them into the type of people we would want them to be. Too many people in our situation would just start popping them out without analyzing the negatives (IE religious people who want their kids raised with god in schools).

**Basel** · 12-15-2012, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-Star

My wife isn't even allowed to fail kids now. We just had a huge thing in Canada where a teacher gave a kid a 0 on an assignment because even weeks after the due date he refused to hand it in. The teacher lost his job because "Giving 0's isn't our policy."

Don't want to go off-topic but is this for real? So basically you can go to school, not do anything and still pass? She got fired because a kid refused to turn in his work? WTF?

**R-Star** · 12-15-2012, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamel Irief

What if we started giving time for Muslims to get on their knees and chant in schools? You don't like it you can sit out?

I don't necessarily have a problem with religion in schools, just that there a ton of religions.

They have private Christian schools. Can't afford them? You can home school. Can't stay home to teach your kids? Maybe you should stop and think if you really can raise kids the way you want to if your only option is public school with no religion.

My wife and I make a combined 6 figure income and no debt. We have no immediate plans for kids because neither of us want to give up other aspects in our life to raise them. I won't knock her up until we can both give our kids all our time and energy they need to raise them into the type of people we would want them to be. Too many people in our situation would just start popping them out without analyzing the negatives (IE religious people who want their kids raised with god in schools).

That's because you're smart. And a good person. It's rare these days.

Me and the wife wanted kids are were trying, then I lost my job so we stopped. Having bills to pay and only the wife working is tough already, bringing a kid in and just expecting things to work out is what most would do, because they're pieces of shit and view a kid as their right, not their responsibility.

As far as different religions, the way I look at it is the main religion in America is Christian (or Catholic or whatever. I'm not a religious guy). If you go over to Ethiopia and tell them they aren't allowed to start every day with their own prayer, they're going to tell you to go **** yourself. Why should it be any different in America?

I understand America has become a melting pot over the years. And that's fine. Not only fine, it was Americas biggest strength for quite a long time. But why does it have to result in America changing and forgetting its past?

Again, if I went to China for school, when they started singing the anthem and having a morning prayer I wouldn't file a complaint about how my rights were stripped from me and I had someone elses religion forced down my throat. And it shouldn't be any different just because its America.

**R-Star** · 12-15-2012, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basel

Don't want to go off-topic but is this for real? So basically you can go to school, not do anything and still pass? She got fired because a kid refused to turn in his work? WTF?

It was a male high school teacher. I think from Edmonton. They gave him an ultimatum to give the kid some sort of grade and he stuck to his guns and refused since there was nothing handed in to even mark.

And yes, you can't fail. In my wifes class last year (kindergarten) one of the younger kids was behind the learning curve, and even his parents saw it and agreed he should be held back, but the school board refused.

I think its a two fold approach to fighting overcrowding in the classroom, as well as not having to deal with parents who blame the teachers and school system when their kids fail.

I vowed to my wife that I'd do something about it, but I'm not even in local politics so in reality there's **** all I can do.

Luckily the teacher in question was immediately hired on by a private school.

**King Joseus** · 12-15-2012, 09:31 AM

There's a lot of dumb in education along those lines. It's frustrating.

**R-Star** · 12-15-2012, 09:36 AM

My wife can't even do her job and now I'm forced to look for a private school when my kids old enough for it.

The first part of the interview will be "If my kid isn't doing his work, you'll fail him right?"

If the answer isn't a resounding yes I'll walk out the door.

I never did homework in junior high or high school often. In highschool the final in every major class was worth 40-50%. So I would just go in and ace that and I always scraped by. But if I knew I could get by no matter what? I probably wouldn't have even tried hard for the final exams.

If my kid has my work ethic when it comes to school, I don't need him knowing its a free pass for 12 years. Its ****ing bullshit.

**Dornado** · 12-15-2012, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-Star

As far as different religions, the way I look at it is the main religion in America is Christian (or Catholic or whatever. I'm not a religious guy). If you go over to Ethiopia and tell them they aren't allowed to start every day with their own prayer, they're going to tell you to go **** yourself. Why should it be any different in America?

But nobody is telling people they can't start their day with a prayer... in fact, that's constitutionally protected... what they are saying is that the government funded school isn't the forum for it, or, at minimum, shouldn't be promoting one religion at the exclusion of others. Pray all you want on your own time, before school... hell, pray in school if you want to... just don't make it some sort of compulsory government sponsored activity.

**R-Star** · 12-15-2012, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dornado

But nobody is telling people they can't start their day with a prayer... in fact, that's constitutionally protected... what they are saying is that the government funded school isn't the forum for it, or, at minimum, shouldn't be promoting one religion at the exclusion of others. Pray all you want on your own time, before school... hell, pray in school if you want to... just don't make it some sort of compulsory government sponsored activity.

I can't really argue that.

**Knicks4life** · 12-15-2012, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Names and ages of the 26 people gunned down at a Connecticut elementary school Friday in the second-deadliest school shooting in U.S. history:

Charlotte Bacon, 6

Daniel Barden, 7

Rachel Davino, 29

Olivia Engel, 6

Josephine Gay, 7

Ana Marquez-Greene, 6

Dylan Hockley, 6

Dawn Hochsprung, 47

Madeleine Hsu, 6

Catherine Hubbard, 6

Chase Kowalski, 7

Jesse Lewis, 6

James Mattioli, 6

Grace McDonnell, 7

Anne Marie Murphy, 52

Emilie Parker, 6

Jack Pinto, 6

Noah Pozner, 6

Caroline Previdi, 6

Jessica Rekos, 6

Avielle Richman, 6

Lauren Rousseau, 30

Mary Sherlach, 56

Victoria Soto,27

Benjamin Wheeler, 6

Allison Wyatt, 6

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/names...d-conn-rampage

**R-Star** · 12-15-2012, 02:21 PM

Thanks.

**Hyperion** · 12-15-2012, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-Star

I tweeted Huckabee. I know I won't get a reply, and I know famous people (if you can call him that) don't sit around a read every tweet. But with guys like that you just hope he see its. Because you know deep down Mike Huckabee knows he's a piece of shit. And I don't feel bad reminding him of that.

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with religion in schools. If you don't believe or have a different religion, don't participate in the morning prayer. But Western society seems bent on being progressively liberal when it comes to things like that. Same idea with "Happy holidays" because Christmas is now some sort of bad word because some people don't have the same beliefs and don't celebrate it. Ridiculous.

That being said, having a morning prayer in the public school systems would have changed nothing here. It wouldn't have protected the kids, and the idea that having god mentioned in school would have somehow saved this Adam whatever his name is from turning into a psycho killer is absolutely laughable.

Ummm, you just had an irrational old person freak out. You logic self contradicts. You can't have a no state religion nation and then have government programs start the day by prayer. I'm not even going to get into the whole worshiping the wrong God aspect here. People are free to congregate and pray before school, they just can't take school time to do so. The hardcore Christian students would congregate at the flagpole before school and pray for my soul and all of us other non-christians.

**R-Star** · 12-15-2012, 03:14 PM

I've come to terms with probably being wrong about morning prayer. The country is too diverse at this point. And yea, there are some ridiculously overzealous bible thumpers in America.

**Hyperion** · 12-15-2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-Star

That's because you're smart. And a good person. It's rare these days.

Me and the wife wanted kids are were trying, then I lost my job so we stopped. Having bills to pay and only the wife working is tough already, bringing a kid in and just expecting things to work out is what most would do, because they're pieces of shit and view a kid as their right, not their responsibility.

As far as different religions, the way I look at it is the main religion in America is Christian (or Catholic or whatever. I'm not a religious guy). If you go over to Ethiopia and tell them they aren't allowed to start every day with their own prayer, they're going to tell you to go **** yourself. Why should it be any different in America?

I understand America has become a melting pot over the years. And that's fine. Not only fine, it was Americas biggest strength for quite a long time. But why does it have to result in America changing and forgetting its past?

Again, if I went to China for school, when they started singing the anthem and having a morning prayer I wouldn't file a complaint about how my rights were stripped from me and I had someone elses religion forced down my throat. And it shouldn't be any different just because its America.

Here is what the US Founding Fathers had to say on religion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson

"The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Paine

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

12-15-2012, 09:31 AM	#142 (permalink)
King Joseus Are You Ready Join Date: May 2003 Location: Zhengzhou Age: 25 Posts: 34,412 Rep Power: 9733001	Re: Children, gunman dead in Conn. elementary school shooting There's a lot of dumb in education along those lines. It's frustrating. __________________ Interested in joining the KVBL? PM me for information.

12-15-2012, 09:36 AM	#143 (permalink)
R-Star BBB.net Archivist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The village of Clive, bro Age: 30 Posts: 37,815 Rep Power: 21474884	Re: Children, gunman dead in Conn. elementary school shooting My wife can't even do her job and now I'm forced to look for a private school when my kids old enough for it. The first part of the interview will be "If my kid isn't doing his work, you'll fail him right?" If the answer isn't a resounding yes I'll walk out the door. I never did homework in junior high or high school often. In highschool the final in every major class was worth 40-50%. So I would just go in and ace that and I always scraped by. But if I knew I could get by no matter what? I probably wouldn't have even tried hard for the final exams. If my kid has my work ethic when it comes to school, I don't need him knowing its a free pass for 12 years. Its ****ing bullshit. __________________

12-15-2012, 02:21 PM	#147 (permalink)
R-Star BBB.net Archivist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The village of Clive, bro Age: 30 Posts: 37,815 Rep Power: 21474884	Re: Children, gunman dead in Conn. elementary school shooting Thanks. __________________

12-15-2012, 03:14 PM	#149 (permalink)
R-Star BBB.net Archivist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The village of Clive, bro Age: 30 Posts: 37,815 Rep Power: 21474884	Re: Children, gunman dead in Conn. elementary school shooting I've come to terms with probably being wrong about morning prayer. The country is too diverse at this point. And yea, there are some ridiculously overzealous bible thumpers in America. __________________

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