Is Rakim the most influential MC ever? - Page 5 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

Serrated Shadow · 11-27-2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Dre_

I could see where Big wouldn't be your cup of tea, but come on...they're comparable, and if they weren't people wouldn't be going back and forth about who was better for 10 odd years. Come on.

Honestly i have to agree with sliccat. Big's nice and all, but i just don't feel he comes close to 2pac's level. I'd explain my reasoning behind it, but i've got to go to class right now.

**Dre** · 11-27-2006, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serrated Shadow

Honestly i have to agree with sliccat. Big's nice and all, but i just don't feel he comes close to 2pac's level. I'd explain my reasoning behind it, but i've got to go to class right now.

Well come back after class and explain this please

HB · 11-27-2006, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnight_Marauder

I never thought I would see the day where kids wouldnt recognize Rakim as the most influential AND the greatest emcee of all time...The man was so far ahead of his time..Not getting into this..but yes..he is the most influential..no questions asked...

Thats a pretty absolute statement. At least you would try to put some explanation behind it. After all the point of the thread is to encourade discussion.

HB · 11-27-2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coatesvillain

They surely have a lot more in common than Jay-Z and Rakim. Flow wise, image-wise, content wise you name it.

Also I mean I like Rakim a lot, but is he really that far ahead of KRS-One, Kool G Rap, Big Daddy Kane, Chuck D? I really think he was right on the same level with all of those guys, but he gets propped up way too far. They all brought things to the table that Rakim never did.

You took the words right out of my mouth. People act like Rakim was solely responsible for bringing that new direction into hip-hop. How about the Slick Ricks, the Kool G's, the Big Daddy Kanes and so many other guys that brought different angles to the game.

Air Fly · 11-27-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimreitz

Why limit it to "The Message"? The horrendous lyrics in great party songs can be seen in every top 10 hit in the history of hip-hop.

Rakim is the most influential. Just like O2K I base this off of how when you listen to Paid in Full, or really any old Rakim album you hear so many lines that you've heard other places. You could almost do a remix album of Paid in Full by piecing the lines that other rappers have bited through the years. You're saying that without Pac there are no thugs Air Fly? THUG LIFE! How stupid. The whole Mafia Rap thing was contemporary to Pac, and NWA was before him. And you want me to crap on your claim of Pac as the best ever some more? He did ONLY as much as Biggie who released two albums in two years and then died. Without Biggie, Tupac isn't even in the discussion. Tupac NEEDED Biggie, and it was a lot more than Biggie needed Pac, but I still don't see any Pac albums certified Diamond by the RIAA. All Eyez on Me, his highest selling album, is almost complete garbage in my opinion, Life After Death is a classic, and hell, it's not even as good as Ready to Die! Pac doesn't have a single album anywhere CLOSE to Biggie's. He's average as an MC and no one is biting his style or lines.

Can't believe I just read that. How about this, without the BEEF with Tupac and getting destroyed literally, Biggie would had been a nobody. Few people still recognize him today, because of that beef with Pac. On a musical level, Pac is better and I don't think it's close. Yes, bring up his flow, lyrics and freestyle but that's not what hip hop is all about. Not to mention, Pac was a poet - A P O E T, smartest rapper to ever live. They study the dude in colleges man, nuff said.

**Sliccat** · 11-27-2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Dre_

I could see where Big wouldn't be your cup of tea, but come on...they're comparable, and if they weren't people wouldn't be going back and forth about who was better for 10 odd years. Come on.

I just said I like big. I don't know why people always have to turn it into an issue of liking an artist. Pretty simply Tupac could do everything Biggie could do, almost as well as Big could, plus there were dimensions to him as an artist that Big never touched. Pac could flip that straight up east coast style on Something Wicked, go west coast on California Love, get deep, political, you could become a platinum artist just by copying an aspect one side of his personality. Biggie just never came close to being as versatile and complete of an artist as Pac did. As far as the argument, I mean, I've met people that would swear that three 6 is the best group ever... I don't put much stock in that sort of thing.

Quote:

Thats a pretty absolute statement. At least you would try to put some explanation behind it. After all the point of the thread is to encourade discussion.

He doesn't believe in that sort of thing.

**Dre** · 11-27-2006, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sliccat

I just said I like big. I don't know why people always have to turn it into an issue of liking an artist. Pretty simply Tupac could do everything Biggie could do, almost as well as Big could, plus there were dimensions to him as an artist that Big never touched. Pac could flip that straight up east coast style on Something Wicked, go west coast on California Love, get deep, political, you could become a platinum artist just by copying an aspect one side of his personality. Biggie just never came close to being as versatile and complete of an artist as Pac did. As far as the argument, I mean, I've met people that would swear that three 6 is the best group ever... I don't put much stock in that sort of thing.

True, Pac was more versatile, but technically speaking, Big's lyricism and intricacy is matched by few others. People don't put Big as GOAT or whatever because of his versatility or depth, it's because of his lyrical ability. It's not a question of content as much as it is how whatever content he spat about was illustrated. He was a money, cash, hoes type of rapper, but how he said what he said made him such an artist. You could go platinum, as many do, emulating Big's lyricism and style as well, so your point is matched. The only place Pac outshines Big is with his political commentary and uplifting of women. Big's better in every other aspect.

**Dre** · 11-27-2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air Fly

Yes, (people) bring up his flow, lyrics and freestyle but that's not what hip hop is all about.

....

Air Fly · 11-27-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Dre_

True, Pac was more versatile, but technically speaking, Big's lyricism and intricacy is matched by few others. People don't put Big as GOAT or whatever because of his versatility or depth, it's because of his lyrical ability. It's not a question of content as much as it is how whatever content he spat about was illustrated. He was a money, cash, hoes type of rapper, but how he said what he said made him such an artist. You could go platinum, as many do, emulating Big's lyricism and style as well, so your point is matched. The only place Pac outshines Big is with his political commentary and uplifting of women. Big's better in every other aspect.

In that case, Steve Kerr is the best basketball player ever. Lyrics don't = GOAT.

Poetry > Lyricism any day of the week and twice on sundays.

Air Fly · 11-27-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Dre_

....

Beside being better than Pac lyrically by a small margin, there is nothing else that Biggie has on Pac.

But like I said Poetry > Lyrcism.

**Dre** · 11-27-2006, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air Fly

In that case, Steve Kerr is the best basketball player ever. Lyrics don't = GOAT.

Poetry > Lyricism any day of the week and twice on sundays.

I guess you conveniently forgot that good poetry in the hip hop form contain examples of good lyricism.

Nimreitz · 11-27-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Dre_

True, Pac was more versatile, but technically speaking, Big's lyricism and intricacy is matched by few others. People don't put Big as GOAT or whatever because of his versatility or depth, it's because of his lyrical ability. It's not a question of content as much as it is how whatever content he spat about was illustrated. He was a money, cash, hoes type of rapper, but how he said what he said made him such an artist. You could go platinum, as many do, emulating Big's lyricism and style as well, so your point is matched. The only place Pac outshines Big is with his political commentary and uplifting of women. Big's better in every other aspect.

Big wasn't money, cash, ho's. Have you heard Ready to Die? It's about an every day struggle on the streets, which is the only thing he knows.

Biggie isn't a poet, he just has great lyricism? Okay, can someone explain the difference here to me? Silly me thought that powerful lyrics said in rhythm was poetic. Is GZA a lyricist or a poet? I've heard both mentioned because it's the SAME THING! But either way what I'm trying to say isn't that Biggie is the greatest ever, it's that he is on Tupac's level and along with Pac helped bring hip-hop worldwide. His albums sold more than Pac's, so I don't know how you can deny that, Pac's public image was higher because of jailtime and movies, but that doesn't make him any more influential in the hip-hop community. Neither are anywhere close to Rakim in terms of influence.

**Coatesvillain** · 11-27-2006, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimreitz

Big wasn't money, cash, ho's. Have you heard Ready to Die? It's about an every day struggle on the streets, which is the only thing he knows.

Life After Death should be subtitled "Money, Cash, Ho's: The Double Album". That's an exaggeration but still a good portion of that album was about that.

**Sliccat** · 11-27-2006, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Dre_

True, Pac was more versatile, but technically speaking, Big's lyricism and intricacy is matched by few others. People don't put Big as GOAT or whatever because of his versatility or depth, it's because of his lyrical ability. It's not a question of content as much as it is how whatever content he spat about was illustrated. He was a money, cash, hoes type of rapper, but how he said what he said made him such an artist. You could go platinum, as many do, emulating Big's lyricism and style as well, so your point is matched. The only place Pac outshines Big is with his political commentary and uplifting of women. Big's better in every other aspect.

I had a very long and detailed response that has somehow disapeared. To sumarize it:

"You're wrong and I'm right."

**Dre** · 11-27-2006, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimreitz

Big wasn't money, cash, ho's. Have you heard Ready to Die? It's about an every day struggle on the streets, which is the only thing he knows.

Have you heard life after death?

Quote:

Biggie isn't a poet, he just has great lyricism? Okay, can someone explain the difference here to me? Silly me thought that powerful lyrics said in rhythm was poetic. Is GZA a lyricist or a poet? I've heard both mentioned because it's the SAME THING! But either way what I'm trying to say isn't that Biggie is the greatest ever, it's that he is on Tupac's level and along with Pac helped bring hip-hop worldwide. His albums sold more than Pac's, so I don't know how you can deny that, Pac's public image was higher because of jailtime and movies, but that doesn't make him any more influential in the hip-hop community.

I said all that. You probably want to quote Air Fly with this tangent.

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