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05-22-2005, 07:06 AM
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#46 (permalink)
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Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Hickville, Indiana
Age: 17
Posts: 14,897
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Re: Pacers Trade Talk
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Originally Posted by TheTruth
Detroit is a better defensive team (BY A FRICKIN TON!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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Detroit has a combination of Ben Wallace, good defensive plays, and good help defenders. Indiana has two shot blockers (Jermaine and Harrison), 2 people great at steals (Tinsley and Artest), good defenders (Freddie and Jackson), a great defensive coach, and very good rebounders (Foster, Pollard, and Davis). Now I'm not calling Indiana better, because no one can beat a combo of team defenders and Ben Wallace. Indiana is pretty close to the top of the league when it comes to defense.
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Detroit is a better offensive team (NOT BY MUCH!!!!!!!)
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No team which runs the ball through Ben Wallace is a better offensive team than Indiana.
Now that we've been through the brawl and Detroit-Indiana comparisons, can we get back on topic?
Last edited by Pacers Fan : 05-22-2005 at 07:13 AM.
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05-22-2005, 08:28 AM
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#47 (permalink)
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Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Hickville, Indiana
Age: 17
Posts: 14,897
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Re: Pacers Trade Talk
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And then there's Jamaal Tinsley, the player the Pacers should work hardest to trade.
Tinsley's got a few strikes against him.
First, there's his health, which is never good and has reduced him to a limping mess nearly every year in the playoffs. It's hard to say if it's conditioning or bad luck or both, but a team can't win consistently with its point guard soaking in the hot tub.
Second, his attitude. He loses his composure. He gets angry and decides to turn a team game into a battle of playground one-on-one. Or he engages in the time-honored NBA practice of sulking. A point guard has to be an extension of the coach, a leader. I see a player with some rare skills with Tinsley, but I don't see a leader.
Look at the NBA's remaining four. Steve Nash. Tony Parker. Chauncey Billups. Dwyane Wade. All of them can shoot. All of them can penetrate and make space for teammates. All of them are still healthy.
Somehow, some way, the Pacers need to upgrade there. And the only way that can happen is a trade.
Free agency? Forget it. The Pacers are already over the salary cap, in part because of some dubious signings by team chief executive Donnie Walsh. Believe it or not, Jonathan Bender and Austin Croshere are the second- and third-highest paid players on the roster.
Finally, there's Jermaine O'Neal, whom Miller keeps saying is the new face of the franchise.
Well, if he's going to lead, he's got to return to the form that earned him third place in the MVP voting last season. How badly was he hurt this season? And how much did Artest's absence force him to change his game? It's really impossible to say. But O'Neal must return next season as a better leader and, yes, as a better player, preferably one with more low-post moves at his disposal.
(Check out an old Kevin McHale video and take notes.)
Beyond the Big Four, the roster figures to remain essentially unchanged.
Bender, who they pray will be healthy someday, has two years left on his deal and no trade value.
Croshere, another guy with two years remaining, is virtually untradable.
Anthony Johnson is a keeper, a perfect backup point guard.
Fred Jones' option will be picked up, and there's reason to wonder if he might have the goods to eventually replace Miller instead of Jackson.
James Jones and Dale Davis, the team's only two free agents, should return.
Jeff Foster, who showed what a factor he could be when he stays healthy, is going nowhere.
The only player left with trade value is Scot Pollard, who's in the last year of his deal. At some point, he will want out -- who wants to play behind Foster and Davis? -- and somebody will want to grab him so that team can wipe his salary off the books for the following season. But you're not going to get an impact player for Pollard.
So there's not a lot the Pacers can do, but there's enough they can do, and must do, if they're going to ensure there won't be a repeat of this season. They don't need an extreme makeover. But a nip here, a tuck there, nobody would argue.
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Read more of Bob Kravitz here
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Acquiring a big-name free agent is out the question because the Pacers are over the salary cap.
The best way for them to improve is by making a trade or selecting an impact player with the No. 17 pick in next month's NBA draft. The Pacers currently have 13 players under contract for next season and they want to re-sign James Jones and Dale Davis.
The Pacers may gamble that Tinsley remains healthy. If so, they could use their draft pick on a shooting guard to help fill the void left by Miller. Jackson will likely start there and Fred Jones will back him up.
No current player seems untouchable, but two players who could be moved are Scot Pollard and Tinsley. Pollard is entering the final year of his contract, and Tinsley has a reasonable contract through the 2010-11 season.
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http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...505220463/1088
Why does everyone suddenly want to trade Tinsley? Does anyone remember before he injured his foot, how great a season he was having? This was arguably his best season ever. I'd rather have Tinsley for half a season than trading him for a less-talented PG and letting Anthony Johnson ruin our offense for more minutes per game.
Last edited by Pacers Fan : 05-22-2005 at 08:33 AM.
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05-22-2005, 08:32 AM
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#48 (permalink)
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Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Hickville, Indiana
Age: 17
Posts: 14,897
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Re: Pacers Trade Talk
Projected 2005-06 roster
| Pos. | Player | Signed through | 2005-06 salary | | F | Jermaine O'Neal | 2009-10 | $16.4 million | | F | Austin Croshere | 2006-07 | $7.9 million | | F | Jonathan Bender | 2006-07 | $7.1 million | | F | Ron Artest | 2008-09 | $6.5 million | | C | Scot Pollard | 2005-06 | $6.2 million | | G | Jamaal Tinsley | 2010-11 | $5.4 million | | G | Stephen Jackson | 2009-10 | $5.3 million | | C | Jeff Foster | 2008-09 | $4.7 million | | G | Anthony Johnson | 2007-08 | $2.6 million | | G | Fred Jones | 2005-06 | $2.3 million | | G | Eddie Gill | 2005-06 | $870,546 | | C | David Harrison | 2008-09 | $690,960 |
Free agents
| Pos. | Player | 2004-05 stats | | C | Dale Davis | 6.9 ppg, 8.9 rpg* | | C | John Edwards | 1.2 ppg, 0.8 rpg | | F | James Jones | 4.9 ppg, 2.3 rpg |
* -- as a Pacer
Projected starting lineup
| Pos. | Player | 2004-05 stats | | F | Jermaine O'Neal | 24.3 ppg, 8.8 rpg | | F | Ron Artest | 24.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg | | C | Jeff Foster | 7.0 ppg, 9.0 rpg | | G | Stephen Jackson | 18.7 ppg, 4.9 rpg | | G | Jamaal Tinsley | 15.4 ppg, 6.4 apg |
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...505220463/1088 |
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05-22-2005, 08:45 AM
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#49 (permalink)
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Mr. Logic
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,682
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Re: Pacers Trade Talk
1. The only type of player the Pacers "need" is a guy like Lindsay Hunter or Mike James.
2. I don't think Dale Davis was wearing down in the playoffs. The only time he looked bad was in the Detroit series, and that was when the refs were making 3 bad foul calls on him a night.
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by <b>gian</b>!
You are the best-est person ever PacersguyUSA!!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by <b>LeBronisnumba1</b>!
Your the coolest man ever! 
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05-22-2005, 08:51 AM
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#50 (permalink)
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Fitz!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Age: 24
Posts: 5,637
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Re: Pacers Trade Talk
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Originally Posted by Pacers Fan
Why does everyone suddenly want to trade Tinsley? Does anyone remember before he injured his foot, how great a season he was having? This was arguably his best season ever. I'd rather have Tinsley for half a season than trading him for a less-talented PG and letting Anthony Johnson ruin our offense for more minutes per game.
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Having an injury-prone PG like Tinsley means Anthony Johnson plays more minutes, not less, because Johnson starts whenever Tinsley is injured.
I know how good Tinsley is, he's incredible. There's not a defender in the league who can keep him out of the lane. But I'd rather have Antonio Daniels for 82 games than Tinsley for 41 and Anthony Johnson for 41.
__________________
If they think we're going into the stands again, then they have the I.Q. of a rabbit. - Stephen Jackson
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05-22-2005, 09:14 AM
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#51 (permalink)
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Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Hickville, Indiana
Age: 17
Posts: 14,897
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Re: Pacers Trade Talk
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Originally Posted by RP McMurphy
Having an injury-prone PG like Tinsley means Anthony Johnson plays more minutes, not less, because Johnson starts whenever Tinsley is injured.
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Actually, Freddie Jones started a lot when Tinsley was out ahead of Anthony Johnson. If Tinsley gets hurt again this year, I'd expect them to do the same. Jones isn't that great a PG, but I'd rather have the ball in his hands than Johnson's.
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05-22-2005, 10:32 AM
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#52 (permalink)
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Banned Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Detroit
Age: 31
Posts: 101
Rep Power: 0
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Re: Pacers Trade Talk
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Originally Posted by Pacers Fan
Detroit has a combination of Ben Wallace, good defensive plays, and good help defenders. Indiana has two shot blockers (Jermaine and Harrison), 2 people great at steals (Tinsley and Artest), good defenders (Freddie and Jackson), a great defensive coach, and very good rebounders (Foster, Pollard, and Davis). Now I'm not calling Indiana better, because no one can beat a combo of team defenders and Ben Wallace. Indiana is pretty close to the top of the league when it comes to defense.?
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Detroit - (3) shot blockers: Ben, Rasheed, and frickin' TAYSHAWN. you guys know that guy right......at least reggie does i know.
Detroit - Far superior to indy in steals
Detroit - The best help defending team in the league.
Detroit - The best rebounder, and tay and sheed are better than foster and pollard....lol
Detroit, San Antonio, and the Bulls are better than indy on "D".
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Originally Posted by Pacers Fan
No team which runs the ball through Ben Wallace is a better offensive team than Indiana.
Now that we've been through the brawl and Detroit-Indiana comparisons, can we get back on topic?
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lol........this shows just how much you know. We dont run the ball through BEN! are you knidding me. If were going low post we go with Sheed' or Tay' depending on the matchup. then we run through Chauncey or Rip before Ben also. come on......catch up here "Rainman".
Matchup's
Center
Detroit- Ben Wallace, Rasheed,Elden
Indy -Foster,Harrison,Pollard
lol....Im thinkin Detroit
Power Forward
Detroit-Sheed,Dyess
Indy-O'neal,Croshere
Push.....Maybe Indy....but considering Sheed won us one and O'Neal's done nothing I'd take Detroit.
Small Forward
Detroit-Tayshaun,dupree,Ham
Indy-Artest,Jones
Push
Shooting Guard
Detroit-Hamilton,Hunter,Billups(when Arroyo Runs Point. we all know he can shoot)
Indy-Jackson,Fred Jones
Detroit....not even close
Point Guard
Detroit-Billups,Arroyo,Hunter
Indy-Tinsley,Gill,Johnson
This ones a Joke...
DETROIT
Bench
Detroit.....hands down
So I would say detroits offense is better than Indy's.....and remember you guys just lost the glue that held your team together and willed you guys to the playoffs last year......Reggie of course
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05-22-2005, 10:37 AM
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#53 (permalink)
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Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Hickville, Indiana
Age: 17
Posts: 14,897
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Re: Pacers Trade Talk
I'm not even going to bother responding to that. If you want to continue this Detroit vs Indiana arguement, feel free to start a topic on it. For now, this is going way off topic.
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05-22-2005, 05:51 PM
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#54 (permalink)
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Lover Not A Fighter...
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Silk City, Jersey...
Age: 28
Posts: 5,807
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Re: Pacers Trade Talk
I really hope we do a significant trade, although I don't wanna see Artest go anywhere, hopefully we'll trade our draft pick and some1 like pollard or Croshere 4 something but if we don't we'll still be better than the sorry a^^ pistons come next year...........
GO PACERS!!!!
REGGIE MILLER IS THE REASON I BLEED BLUE & GOLD.....
I'LL MISS U 4EVER SUPERMAN AKA KNICK KILLER
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05-22-2005, 05:54 PM
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#55 (permalink)
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Banned Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Detroit
Age: 31
Posts: 101
Rep Power: 0
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Re: Pacers Trade Talk
No personal attacks on members.
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05-22-2005, 05:59 PM
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#56 (permalink)
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Banned Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Detroit
Age: 31
Posts: 101
Rep Power: 0
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Re: Pacers Trade Talk
dang you guys are quick..........
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05-22-2005, 06:02 PM
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#57 (permalink)
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Mr. Logic
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 6,682
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Re: Pacers Trade Talk
Matchups (how it really should be):
Center
Detroit- Ben Wallace, Rasheed, Elden
Indy - Foster,Harrison,Pollard
Power Forward
Detroit-Sheed,Dyess
Indy-O'neal,Croshere
Small Forward
Detroit-Tayshaun, Dupree,Ham
Indy-Artest, Jones
Shooting Guard
Detroit-Hamilton, Hunter
Indy-Jackson, Fred Jones
Point Guard
Detroit-Billups,Arroyo,Hunter
Bench
Indiana.....hands down
Coach:
Detroit
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by <b>gian</b>!
You are the best-est person ever PacersguyUSA!!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by <b>LeBronisnumba1</b>!
Your the coolest man ever!
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05-22-2005, 06:02 PM
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#58 (permalink)
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Lover Not A Fighter...
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Silk City, Jersey...
Age: 28
Posts: 5,807
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Re: Pacers Trade Talk
U should just be happy and glad U get 2 see your team 4 one more series, so enjoy it now cause soon it'll be boooo hooo..... and come next season it'll be more cries... no more Larry Brown and sorry excuse 4 human beings in Detroit...
P.S. tell me how good u think Detroit is without your MVP.....{Larry Brown}, who took a bunch of mediocre players and turned them in2 champions....
no more of that.....booo hoooo!!!!!!
GO PACERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The same rules apply for Pacers fans. Do not insult a fanbase or another member.
Last edited by StephenJackson : 05-22-2005 at 06:07 PM.
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Pacers Trade Talk
