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**PaCeRhOLiC** · 01-23-2006, 10:41 AM

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January 23, 2006
Bob Kravitz
Time to tinker is gone; trade O'Neal, rebuild

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The Indiana Pacers, now a bland, mediocre franchise doomed to middling status in the Eastern Conference, have left themselves with only two real choices:

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Start the rebuilding process now, or wait until this summer?

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Blow it up.
Start over.

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Unpopular? Yes. Difficult? With this screwy salary structure, with Jonathan Bender and Austin Croshere ranking as the second- and third-highest-paid players on the team, absolutely. Necessary? That, too. It's just a matter of when.

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There will be changes, and it would be foolish to dismiss the notion that those changes wouldn't involve O'Neal.

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If they're going to rebuild, they've got to start by moving O'Neal. He's the only player on this roster who can demand another All-Star-caliber talent. Anything short of that, they're basically tinkering, which defeats the entire purpose.

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If I thought a little bit of tinkering might put them over the top, or at least get them into the area code of the top, I'd say they need to keep battling away with the current roster, be patient. If I thought an eventual trade would mentally kick-start them, make them some kind of dark horse contender, I'd call for maintaining the status quo.
Except it's not going to happen.

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Is Jamaal Tinsley ever going to stay healthy? And if he does, will his maddening, painfully inconsistent street game ever evolve?

No, and no.

(Understand, Tinsley is a base-year compensation player, which means if they traded him now, they'd get only half his contractual value in return. So if they're going to move him, it will be this summer, when they can get full financial value.)

Is Stephen Jackson the long-term answer at either the two- or three-spot?

No.

There are some decent pieces in place, some younger players who have a chance to emerge with additional minutes. But in the end, the Pacers as currently constituted are monuments to mediocrity, products of an Eastern Conference where .500 is viewed as an elite standard.
They're going to have to start over. Now or later, they're going to have to start over.QUOTE]Is Jamaal Tinsley ever going to stay healthy? And if he does, will his maddening, painfully inconsistent street game ever evolve?

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060123/COLUMNISTS01/601230389

Go PaCeRs!!!!

Pacers Fan · 01-23-2006, 12:48 PM

I do kind of agree with this. Unless O'Neal becomes an inside presence, he isn't doing us much good. I didn't even read Kravitz's article, but the title inspired me to spend an hour writing an article about this topic in my computer class. What's pathetic is that everyone else in the class wrote about 2-3 paragraphs, and I wrote about 15.

**StephenJackson** · 01-23-2006, 01:19 PM

Sadly, if O'Neal leaves the Pacers, I just may too.

That would break my heart.

Pacers Fan · 01-23-2006, 01:27 PM

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Originally Posted by StephenJackson

Sadly, if O'Neal leaves the Pacers, I just may too.

That would break my heart.

You can still support Jonathan Bender and Saras! Maybe even Anthony Johnson, once he starts looking like this:

Abdullah!

Grangerx33 · 01-23-2006, 01:32 PM

That would be stupid, trading O'Neal won't help us, just trade Artest and bring in someone to go along O'Neal and we will be just fine. If we trade for some of the people rumored we could be amazing, Vince Carter was one rumor, although I don't see that happening after he's been tearing teams up as of late, Paul Pierce was another rumor, this would require more things to go along with Artest but him and O'Neal along side eachother would be amazing.

HuntDizzle · 01-23-2006, 01:55 PM

I was checking out the latest Artest info in your forum when I came across this thread. Being a Lakers fan, I am interested to find out just when it is that he'll be wearing purple and gold.

I've liked the Pacers for a long time b/c I'm a Reggie fan. I got to play some ball w/ him at B-ball camp when I was younger, and I gained a ton of respect for him. Don't think I've ever been on a court w/ anyone who could shoot like that, before or after that.

Seriously though, this article is garbage. I don't believe your team needs to be blown up whatsoever. There is a lot of talent still here. The team just needs to get the whole Artest thing behind them so that they can focus on moving forward as a TEAM. The Artest trade rumors, etc. are just a grinding distraction that needs to be handled ASAP. This team needs closure on that chapter. Any team would. Once the right deal is made, hopefully they get a solid player, cap space, and draft picks in return. I think they can do pretty well, but JO has to play at the PF spot. Start Jeff Foster at Center (unless you get a Center for Artest), JO at the 4, Granger at the 3, SJ at the 2, and Tinsley (when healthy) at the 1. If not start AJ or Saras. That's not bad. Foster is a good defender and very good rebounder. JO can lat out ball. Granger will be much better next year if he gets starter minutes this year. SJ can light it up all over and D up (although he's inconsistent). You have 3 capable PG's as well. Not to mention you have good role players in Croshere, Jones, Harrison, etc. Therefore, I think dealing JO is the WRONG course of action. One step at a time. Get the Artest Mess cleaned up and move forward from there. You have some young guys in Harrison, Granger, and Jones that are all getting better and will contribute quality minutes in the near future. Draft smart, use your MLE and LLE well, and the team will be back in no time.

JO ain't going anywhere. Keep y'all heads up!

As far as Artest, what would you guys think of a deal like this?

Pacers trade: Artest, AJ.

Lakers trade: Mihm, George, Miami '06 1st rd pick.

Just an idea b/c everyone is always talking about the Lakers giving up Bynum or Odom to get Artest. I can guarantee you now that Bynum will NOT be traded, but Odom could still be available. I think Mihm would be a good starting C on the Pacers w/ JO at the 4. George could start over Granger at the 3 this year and provide veteran experience for the Playoffs. You also get Miami's pick this year. I'm pretty sure the Pacers want to get rid of AJ to clear $2.5mil more in cap space. George's $5mil comes off this year too. Mihm is a bargain at like $3.7mil this year, and $4.1mil next year. What does anyone think? I'm sure it doesn't look like the best deal on the surface, but it would actually accomplish some good things for this team.

Werd.

HuntDizzle · 01-23-2006, 02:07 PM

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Originally Posted by Fred Jones

That would be stupid, trading O'Neal won't help us, just trade Artest and bring in someone to go along O'Neal and we will be just fine. If we trade for some of the people rumored we could be amazing, Vince Carter was one rumor, although I don't see that happening after he's been tearing teams up as of late, Paul Pierce was another rumor, this would require more things to go along with Artest but him and O'Neal along side eachother would be amazing.

In all reality, you guys are not going to get anyone near the talent level of Carter or Pierce for Artest at this point. I know Bird thinks he's going to get more by waiting until the deadline, but I don't think so. How many teams are going to be willing to give up one of their main pieces more than halfway through the season and risk chemistry, etc. possibly ruining the remainder of the season. The risk is far greater than the reward in giving up that caliber of player at that point in the season. Bird may find a team willing to throw in more draft picks or take on more bad contracts at the deadline, but not give up better players. I personally think that the damage being done to the team with the Artest Mess still hanging over their heads, is greater than the benefits will be from holding onto him. They've simply gotta get something done before they have write the season off as another failure.

I wish the Pacers the best of luck, I think they're good for the League, and I have a lot of respect for the person that JO has become. However, if Bird is holding out for an All-Star in return for Artest, he's sadly mistaken.

Werd.

rock747 · 01-23-2006, 06:43 PM

I honestly don't think Jermaine O'neal is going to take us anywhere, I am up for trading him. He's just to inconsistent and unreliable. Take tonights game against the Hawks for example. It's pretty disturbing when your team starts losing when your susposed "best players" come back. This isn't the only time either, the same thing happened last year.

**PaCeRhOLiC** · 01-23-2006, 06:50 PM

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Originally Posted by rock747

I honestly don't think Jermaine O'neal is going to take us anywhere, I am up for trading him.

Agreed 200%...

Matter of fact, I'm up for trading everyone except Croshere, and Granger...

Go PaCeRs!!!!

rock747 · 01-23-2006, 06:57 PM

It's actually too bad we had to have trouble with Ron Artest because we could get All-Star Caliber player for Jermaine O'neal. Artest is/was the Pacers best player. I think the Pacers could still be a championship team if they were able to keep Artest and trade Jermaine, but with the recent trade request I guess thats not possible.

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