Gonzo

How much more is there to argue? You're so worried about your reputation on some shitty message board. Anything anyone says that is against your slanted views is wrong, and always wrong. You're 29, married, and have a kid yet you're still arguing about guys like Lance Stephenson and Darren Collison on an Internet message board that has passed its prime.

How much did you see Lance and Darren play last season?

Lance is infinitely better (which is what I constantly argue) and Darren Collison is still Darren Collison. He's not a floor general, and sucks at what should be his only job. He might be averaging 6 assists now, but I never saw any of this good passing in Indiana. I don't think anyone did, which is why we got rid of him for Mahinmi. R-Star is the only person that magically saw his good passing (or maybe he saw it because we say it sucks?).

The reason why Indiana's system doesn't reward good PG's is because we haven't had a good PG in 5+ years.

If Darren was as good as you say he is he wouldn't get benched, he wouldn't have been traded. Something tells me the guys running teams in the NBA are smarter than R-Star.

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Gonzo

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R-Star

So I can't argue on a message board? Maybe we should just post saying "Go Pacers!" and leave every single post to that. And I'm sorry Jimmy, but no, I don't give a **** what people think about me on here.

Show me a post where I said Darren Collison was a great point guard. I'd like to see it. No, what I said, and pay careful attention because your selective reading is getting real ****ing annoying, is this: Darren Collison is a good passer with good court vision. Read it again. His draft profile agrees with me. His stats agree with me. What I've personally seen of him agrees with me.

I posted about how the Pacers just sit at the 3 point line and pass the ball around until they find an opening. You decided not to reply to that post. I posted his draft profile which says hes a great passer with a high basketball IQ. Nope. Lets not talk about that. You personally say he isn't a good passer. Hell, you even say Hibbert isn't a good defender, even though he anchors the paint for the best defensive team in the league.


So again, the argument isn't is Darren Collison amazing, or is he a starting point guard, no. It has always been whether or not hes a good passer. Read that carefully because you don't seem to be able to understand it. And when it comes to that argument, its not arguable. His stats say he is, his draft profile says he is, and what he shows on the court says he is.

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Pacers Fan

:fail:

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Indeed.

Gonzo

We both have selective reading; you've taken my comments about Lance Stephenson out of context many times as well as my comments about Hibbert. Just because Hibbert can block a shot doesn't make him a great defender, he gets burned on every pick and roll. He can't run. He can't guard anyone stronger or faster than him without falling over. He's not good a rotating, something we need with guys like Stephenson on defense. Yeah, great defense. Never said he was bad, and he is an anchor, but blocking and protecting the rim is about the only good thing he does on defense.

His draft profile says he's a good passer... in college. Who cares about a 4 year old draft profile? His stats in Indiana say he wasn't a good passer. I never saw it, and I don't think that Bird, Vogel, or JOB saw it. I agree that our system doesn't really help PG's out, but I saw a better scorer than passer. I actually really enjoyed when he would get aggressive on offense and tried to score. With a guy like David West, it should have been pick and roll heaven. With Danny Granger it should have been drive and dish. Hell, with Paul George shooting 40%+ from the three early last season he should have been hitting him. You can blame it on the system all you want, but the system isn't everything.

He's been benched by two different teams. George Hill is a better defender, scorer, passer, and floor general. George Hill the combo guard has proven he's a better passer.

Agree to disagree, I just don't see the good passing in him. Watching him for 70+ games on our team was frustrating.

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Gonzo

I think maybe Pacers Fan influenced me to hate Collison. First thing I heard about Collison was that he was a bad passer, ruined my perception.

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R-Star

It happens. If you were to just watch what he did in Indy then it would be hard to think hes a good passer.

Back in Tinsleys prime years here he was allowed to hold onto the ball and look to set the play. Ever since then its been dribbling to the 3 point line, and then passing around looking for someone in a spot to iso.

In some aspects I like it since it gets everyone involved, but its also why we never have a big scorer or someone who racks up assists. We're 27th in the league in apg right now which shouldn't surprise anyone.

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R-Star

And we'll just have to agree to disagree on Hibbert. From my center the biggest thing I want is him protecting the rim and making people worry that they'll get the ball spiked back into their face.

He gets lit up when he plays Cousins, but that's the only guy who sticks out to me as a guy who always gets the better of the matchup.

Now Roys offense this year...... yea, that's horrible. Somethings wrong. I just hope the coaching staff can help him figure it out, because he's playing like shit on offense.

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Gonzo

I want him to protect the rim as well, but I wish he was faster and stronger... basically just more athletic. It really hurts him at times when he gets a foul because he couldn't rotate fast enough. His foul problems can really hurt us, and it just makes Vogel look down the bench even more, which is what we don't want. Boozer and Noah consistently bend him over and take advantage of him, as well. They seem to love that matchup.

On offense, it almost looks like he's trying some new shots. I've seen a different type of hook shot from him this year, I don't know why. His hook shot was fine last year. His lower body strength really kills him, a lot of guys have figured out that if you just push him out farther from the basket he's rendered basically useless. Dude's a robot only knows how to do certain things on a certain spot, you move him from that spot and he can't figure out what to do different so he just goes for the hook and bricks it.

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R-Star

I can't really argue that. Hes by no means a perfect defender, and his lack of strength is always apparent.

At the end of the day I think his defensive strengths outweigh his deficiencies, and make him one of the better defensive 5's in the league.

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Knick Killer

You guys are a bunch of idiots. Now kiss and make up so we continue to annoy the rest of the site together.


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R-Star

Depends on if you think Darren Collison is a good passer or not...

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Gonzo

This was never a hateful debate, just a simple disagreement.

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R-Star

**** you!




...... Just kidding obviously. Me and Gonzo are internet pals. We don't have to always agree to still enjoy posting together.

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Knick Killer

Just making sure the 3 Man Band is still in tact.


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