cpawfan

I'm now dumber for having read this tripe attempting to defend Steve Francis

The only good thing that would have come out of Francis signing with the Clippers is reading the stories of Dunleavy trashing him in the media after Francis cost the Clipper yet another game with his selfish play and boneheaded decisions.

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yamaneko

If we ever lost a game it wouldnt be because of steve francis. Having him on our team would have WON us more games, and had us closer in games that we would have been farther away in.

Theres no refuting the fact that a healthy steve francis starting for us, and giving cassell less minutes is better than having cassell start, play a lot of minutes, and pay the same money for brevin knight and dan dickau.

Is that a guarantee that it would have worked out? Of course not. He could get injured, could have a family emergency, who knows. But all things equal francis would have been better on this team than knight and dickau. And obviously the clippers thought the same way because they pursued him heavily before even thinking about knight or dickau.

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08-09 Clippers - A Thomas/Mobley trade for a star on the cheap away from a championship

Showtime87

I'm dumber for having supported the Clippers for 20+ years, but hey, what can you do?

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“Until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, everywhere is war and until there are no longer first-class and second-class citizens of any nation, until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes. And until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race, there is war. And until that day, the dream of lasting peace, world citizenship, rule of international morality, will remain but a fleeting illusion to be pursued, but never attained... now everywhere is war.”
- Haile Salassie

REMEMBERING #44: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Gathers

cpawfan

You obviously haven't watched Steve Francis actually play NBA basketball. Here is a big clue, stats are misleading things.

It is very easy to refute that Francis would help the Clippers more than Knight to anyone that doesn't go "OMG, Steve Francis is so talented, look at the stats he use to put up"

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yamaneko

Stats are not misleading when you do the things francis can do. Theres no such thing as stats being so misleading that a guy who averages 20, 6 and 6 for 6 years straight is somehow worse than a brevin knight. Especially when were talking an offense which needs the PG to be a shooter, get a couple of boards, and stretch the defense. Now, if we were talking steve francis vs. say Chris paul or chauncy billups, guys who have never even put up one season of what francis did for 6, yes we can say that in that case, its an argument of who is better, DESPITE the stats.

But were talking about freaking brevin knight and dan dickau. There is no arguing that for the price Francis and jordan or diaz is worlds better than knight and dickau. And like i said, the clippers feel the same way as well because he was priority number 1 this offseason. I dont know what you are trying to argue here.

Im not saying we should have released sam cassell to sign francis. Im not saying we should have done a sign and trade with portland and trade maggette or something for francis when he was there. All im saying is that for the money, one of the better players the last decade is better than a PG who has, over the last 2 years, hit the same amount of three pointers as yaroslav korolev for goodness sakes.

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08-09 Clippers - A Thomas/Mobley trade for a star on the cheap away from a championship

cpawfan

Hilarious, especially over a guy that finished in the top 5 in turnovers for 5 of those 6 seasons and only made the playoffs one time.

I suppose you believe Marbury was a good PG when he was averaging 20 and 8

Also, you need to stick to one side of an argument. You are now claiming that the wisdom of the Clippers Front Office should just be accepted at face value after strings of posts declaring how dumb they were for taking Al Thornton over Nick Young.

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yamaneko

How is it hilarious? I have no problem with someone giving me 20 and 6 and 6 a game, to have less than 1 Turnover per 10 minutes. Same as i have no problem with alen iverson averaging 25-30 7 and 4, who got over 1 TO per 10 minutes.

Brand has barely made the playoffs in his career, so what? Garnett didnt the last couple of years, is he a cancer too? Marbury is MORE than a "good" PG. The guy in his entire CAREER has averaged 20 and 8. His minutes and output has gone down slightly the last couple of years, in the crazy situation that is NY. But contract aside, would i rather have him right now than a 38 year old sam cassell? Dang straight.

I only argue one side of the argument, the truth, and the facts. Clippers have made a lot of boneheaded decisions such as thornton, rebraca, promising korolev, etc.. But does that mean that they must always be wrong? No, otherwise decisions like trading jaric for cassell, resigning brand, finding Q Ross, etc. must also be wrong. The truth and the facts are simple: Sometimes the clippers make the right decisions, sometimes they make questionable ones. Sometimes the "right" decisions at the time dont work out down the road, sometimes the "wrong" decisions at the time do work out.

I just stated a fact, that not even the clippers brass thought that brevin knight was better than francis. No team in the league was reported to have brevin knight on their watch list before steve francis that i saw.

But anyway, you try to keep beating around the main issue, which there is no arguing. Steve Francis (healthy) for our offense is > Brevin Knight (healthy) in many ways.

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08-09 Clippers - A Thomas/Mobley trade for a star on the cheap away from a championship

cpawfan

I could go through this and respond point by point, but I feel sorry for you, so I won't.

I have not beaten around this issue. I have stated quite clearly that you are full of crap and proven that you the value you place on basketball players is hilarious.

The fact you believe Francis and Marbury were good PG's (or should I say more than good) tells anyone with a brain how clueless you are. Both players are selfish, me first ball hogs. That is the last thing the Clippers need. The Clippers got extremely lucky that Francis decided to take his *** to Houston, as the lockerroom would have been as toxic as the Mo "I'm worth a max contract" Taylor days.

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DaFranchise

Yes I said infatuation...Your posts/ESSAYS prove it. He is NOT good anymore. Get over it. I was NEVER defending the signing of Knight/Dickau so for you to bring that up makes abosolutely no sense. Its no secret what I wanted the CLips to do in the draft. Critt, Critt, Critt!!!! I am happy with AL though. He has proved me wrong with his perimeter shot.

THE'clip'SHOW

haha.. your not the only one!

I think his ideal starting backcourt would be Stevie Franchise at SG with Yuta Tabuse at PG!

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Timmons:

"Nuggets confidence vs. Clippers is like Jason Biggs in American Pie when Shannon Elizabeth comes into his bed room and all Biggs can muster is wet pants. Nuggets don't want any part of the Clippers, but they'll get the whole thing "

yamaneko

Translation: "i cant argue with you anymore because how can i argue the facts"

Now, THAT is hilarious. Havent beaten around the issue? The issue is whether a healthy steve francis is better than a healthy brevin knight. You havent touched that once, because you know the answer to that. How have you proven that the value i place on ball players is hilarious? You are the one saying that its nothing to get 20 6 and 6 for six years....that its "just misleading stats." You are the one who says that a 20 and 8 for 11 years PG should not even be considered "good." keep it up, soon your posts will become so comical that I wont even have to respond.

But, just in case for once you DO want to get into the issue, please do explain how a healthy brevin knight is better than a healthy steve francis for this offense.

More hilarity. Who are the best PG's of clippers recent history? Well who are the PG's who have directed playoff runs? Cassell of 05/06 is the only one in the dunleavy era. I could go with others, but unlike you i like to stick to the topic of this current team/system. Cassell, our best PG in over a decade, if not more in 05/06 averaged 17 FG attempts per 40 minutes, and had 7 assists in that same time frame. Sounds like a familiar statline. Oh yeah, Marbury in his entire career has averaged 17 shots a game, but 8 assists per game. If youre wondering cassell averaged about 4 rebounds per 40, while marbury has just been around 3 for his career. What about francis? Well this "selfish, ball hog" has only averaged 15 shots per 40 in his career, 6 and a half assists per 40, and 6 rebounds per 40.

So your theory is bogus. Marbury and francis are not ball hogs the way you say they are. If they were, they would not have the assist numbers they have. Francis, even has less FG attempts per 40 minutes than the best PG the dunleavvy offense has ever had, yet the same assists, and twice as many rebounds about. And were comparing francis with cassell, do we even have to compare him to knight? The dunleavvy offense needs a PG who can hit the occasional three, and who can give decent offense.

And francis would have made the locker room toxic? Why? He would be getting tons of minutes, so what is there to complain about? He would be with his best buddy in the world, mobley. There is nothing in francis history that would make one say that in the clipper situation he would be a toxic prescece in the locker room.

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08-09 Clippers - A Thomas/Mobley trade for a star on the cheap away from a championship

yamaneko

Yup, im infatuated with facts...so kill me. Im not infatuated with the person. Francis is not good anymore? Why do you say that? He might not be the same as 5 years ago, but his per 40 numbers the last 2 years are still only down only 3 points and 1 rebound/assist from his career totals. To put that into perspective, elton brand went down from 05 to 06 by 4 points per 40.

And how can it make no sense me bringing up dickau/knight? That is all we are talking about here since the beginning. He chose to sign somewhere else, and he was my first FA choice, the clippers first FA choice. Instead of us getting him we got brevin knight...so i have said that im not saying francis is a superstar anymore, all im saying is that he was an incredible player before, and he is much better than brevin knight and dan dickau. Im assuming you agree with me? If so, then wonderful. I dont know about crittenton..im not 100% sure i would have even taken him over thronton. Possibly just on need alone. But if not thornton, i would have picked about 4 or 5 other guys before crittenton.

haha, keep it up. For any new members, this is what usually happens when people try to argue with me, they end up resorting to stupid comments like this since they cant hendle the facts. Love it.

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08-09 Clippers - A Thomas/Mobley trade for a star on the cheap away from a championship