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**cpawfan** · 10-30-2007, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yamaneko

Newsflash: Stats wins games.

Thank you for giving us the single dumbest statement ever typed on this site

**yamaneko** · 10-31-2007, 12:42 AM

How can it be dumb when its true? When its all said and done, whoever has more points at the end of the game, GUARANTEED, is the winner. You talk as if you dont know that fact. You put 5 guys out there who are the best citizens, best team players, yada yada yada, but they only can put up 80 points, yet the opposing team has cry babies, ball hogs, yada yada, and they get 90 points, guess who won the game?

Dont talk as if statistics are meaningless especially when comparing 2 players where one averages twice as many points as the other. You can use the meaningless stats argument when were saying things like, hey Q ross averages almost nothing offensively, but his defense is what doesnt show up in the stat book.

Or if we say, kwame brown averages more points than Robert horry, hes a much better player. Yeah, then we can use the statistics is misleading argument.

Or perhaps when there is a player who is a one hit wonder on a terrible team like mike james going for 20 and 6 for toronto. No way is he better than cassell who that year averaged less than that.

But you are using the statistics are meaningless argument on things that are not even close.

shaunliv · 10-31-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFranchise

Who erased my post? At least have the guts to man up. There was nothing offensive nor obscene. Lame

i feel you man, i've had at least THREE posts deleted within the last two weeks with NO explanation. the gestapo is in full effect!

shaunliv · 10-31-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpawfan

Because we are talking about what the players can contribute right now to helping the Clippers win games. Steve Francis, even at his best, wasn't a guy that played winning basketball. You can point to the pretty stats all you want, but that still doesn't change the fact that winning basketball is not something Francis understands. The GM's that understand how to build winning teams are few and far between. It has been proven time and time again that GM's will pay huge sums of money to guys that put up pretty stats

This isn't about being an offensive minded PG. Cassell simply has "it" He showed that in Minnesota when he was the driving force behind that team finally making a deep playoff run. The fallacy that I have been pointing out is that you can't just look at Cassell's stats and say, duplicate that. Sam is a winner and Francis isn't.

Which is just dumb as there are too many variables in that comparison.

Again, the lunacy of your attempt to average multiple seasons. Additionally, you once again demonstrate how little of NBA history you understand. Googs was a damn good player and far better than any other forward KG played with afterwards. I isolated the variables and you are attempting to muddy the waters.

You really should stop looking at old stats and pretending you know something about things you know nothing about. Marbury replaced Cassell and the Nets were worse.

KVH averaged more pre-Marbury than he did with Marbury. When Kidd joined the Nets, KVH was given a far different role than he had with Marbury as the PG. Again, another demonstration of a lack of knowledge on your part.

Marbury is a talented individual player that doesn't play winning basketball. That is who he is. His best value is as a fantasy draft pick because he makes sure that he gets his. Marbury lived off a reputation that he had since HS that he was a special player. Indeed he is special, but he still isn't a winning PG.

as tough as it is to admit, i AGREE with YAMS, on these particular issues. although Knight consistently has one of the best assist to turnover rates and plays solid D, there's no way he could outplay a healthy Francis. offensively, Francis would have provided a legitimate scoring threat from anywhere on the court(he would definitely had to be accounted for). he averages 6.1 assists and 5.6 rebounds a game for his ENTIRE career! IMHO, the clippers WOULD win more games with FRANCIS rather than Knight!

**cpawfan** · 10-31-2007, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaunliv

as tough as it is to admit, i AGREE with YAMS, on these particular issues. although Knight consistently has one of the best assist to turnover rates and plays solid D, there's no way he could outplay a healthy Francis. offensively, Francis would have provided a legitimate scoring threat from anywhere on the court(he would definitely had to be accounted for). he averages 6.1 assists and 5.6 rebounds a game for his ENTIRE career! IMHO, the clippers WOULD win more games with FRANCIS rather than Knight!

You might as well be talking about bigfoot playing PG for the Clippers because the Francis you are talking about doesn't exist anymore.

**yamaneko** · 10-31-2007, 02:24 PM

dafranchise, any posts which are just personal attacks on a singular person, when not even having any basis on a topic at hand are deleted. Its one thing to have a good argument going back and forth, on topic, but if you just come out of nowhere with negativity directed toward one person that is completely uncalled for, its the same as a personal attack and is deleted, not to mention when people do things like that it really brings down the board.

Quote:

You might as well be talking about bigfoot playing PG for the Clippers because the Francis you are talking about doesn't exist anymore.

Look at her per 40 minute numbers though in his "down years" while he was injured. The 20 6 and 6 francis is certainly not there anymore. Look at him in the last month of the season when he finally was getting playing time. The last 5 games, that he had over 30 minutes in, went for 23 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds. The next to last month of the season, in games he had 30 minutes or more, averaged 16 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists. When he gets minutes, he still can put up decent numbers.

He is not an all star, but when given minutes, even in his "off years" puts up better numbers than most that we have put at PG/SG the last couple of years.

DaFranchise · 10-31-2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yamaneko

dafranchise, any posts which are just personal attacks on a singular person, when not even having any basis on a topic at hand are deleted. Its one thing to have a good argument going back and forth, on topic, but if you just come out of nowhere with negativity directed toward one person that is completely uncalled for, its the same as a personal attack and is deleted, not to mention when people do things like that it really brings down the board.

Look at her per 40 minute numbers though in his "down years" while he was injured. The 20 6 and 6 francis is certainly not there anymore. Look at him in the last month of the season when he finally was getting playing time. The last 5 games, that he had over 30 minutes in, went for 23 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds. The next to last month of the season, in games he had 30 minutes or more, averaged 16 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists. When he gets minutes, he still can put up decent numbers.

He is not an all star, but when given minutes, even in his "off years" puts up better numbers than most that we have put at PG/SG the last couple of years.

Did you erase it and how was it offensive? Explain in detail

**yamaneko** · 10-31-2007, 06:20 PM

If you really do not know why it was erased, feel free to PM, do not continue to go further off topic on the thread.

Its very simple, try to stay on topic if you can. If you bring up something totally out in left field that has no basis to be in the thread, it could be either A. ignored, B. moved to an appropriate thread, or C. deleted if the post was just meant to attack someone for no reason.

Now, for the last time, enough with the comments that have nothing to do with this thread and are made solely to try to aggravate or attack another person. Matter of fact, thread is closed.

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