hutcht02

Brand is a class act. He's been here through the worst of it and hasn't complained at all. Honestly, the Clippers'biggest problem over the course of their franchise life is that they lack identity. Randy Smith. Bob McAdoo. Bill Walton as he fell apart. World B. Free. My point is that fans need someone to look up to. Brand could be our savior. Unless Dwight Howard or LeBron calls us up and says "I want to be a Clipper for life" I think keeping Brand is the best move the franchise can make.

I'd rather see an inspired Clippers team lose than apersonality-lacking Clippers win. Keep Brand please.

DaFranchise

Love the loyalty of some of you guys..EB is a stud on the offensive boards and his offensive game is still improving. Remember when he couldn't hit the 15 fter. His work ethic alone earns him his money. The mistake was giving Kaman the big money. I love Kaman but his numbers this yr are big time inflated with EB's absence. I would have much rather built around EB. Not to mention the contracts of Cat and TT. SO tell me if I m wrong but the only 2 worthy noted expiring contracts are Maggs(option) and Sam, right?

Showtime87

Couldn't agree more about Elton. My argument in this thread for keeping him was based solely on his basketball skills, but I completely agree that his work ethic and leadership qualities are just as important. He's given this franchise an identity, which is something they sorely lacked since the days of Danny Manning, Ron Harper and Mark Jackson.

Yes, you are correct that those are the only two big money deals that will expire after this season. I loved the Cat Mobley signing at the time, but now his and Thomas' contract really have this team hamstrung.

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“Until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, everywhere is war and until there are no longer first-class and second-class citizens of any nation, until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes. And until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race, there is war. And until that day, the dream of lasting peace, world citizenship, rule of international morality, will remain but a fleeting illusion to be pursued, but never attained... now everywhere is war.”
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REMEMBERING #44: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Gathers

bootstrenf

team is nothing without brand...i'm shocked how some of you think gasol is even in the same league as brand...brand is one the few true two way pf's in the game...i mean that he plays defense and offense...and yeah gasol took his grizzlies to the playoffs, but what is their record again??? something like 0-12???


and during the clippers playoff run of 05-06, cassell got the glory, but brand is the one who took us there...during the playoffs, elton averaged 25.5 ppg / 12.3 rpg / 4 apg / 1 spg / 2.6 bpg

better than his regular season numbers...not alot of players do that...only the good ones...


and since everyone is blaming elton for the clippers woes, i guess garnett sucked balls when he was on the wolves...

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yamaneko

Leidout with the amazing voice of reason here.

Drafting and trading compared to free agnecy is a different thing. Drafting and trading take skills that one could look at a resume for. Getting a free agent usually has little to do with the track record of a certain GM. Its usually an opportunity thing, or reputation of the organization team. That is why almost DOES MOST CERTAINLY count. You had said that no star would even consider signing with us. I say, they most certainly would and have considered us. 10 years ago, someone of arenas or kobe's stature would not even have given us a second thought, yet now, they do, which means that we will be right up there for signing someone. ESPECIALLY if we are the only semi decent team in the league with cap space, and especially if were one of the only ones who can offer someone like brand or maggette in sign and trade.

Brand came from a draft trade, when we had cap space and could trade for pure salary. How long ago was that? Cassell I mentioned already as being the only decent recent trade we have had. Maggette too was from way back when, also a draft day trade by orlando who was clearing space for grant hill, and again we were one of the only teams in a position to take on salary. If we had capspace, sure, perhaps we would have the opportunity to do a trade like that (even though we havent in 7 years). But that takes us back to my original point. With brand we dont have capspace, so to say one of those types of trades is relevent is false.

Your orlando trade scenario is highly unlikely. Orlando already had their shot with mobley, and they didnt like him. Because of their huge contracts of Orlando, that makes their expiring ones that much more valuable to them to save them from luxury tax. How often to teams with that kind of salary, trade their expiring contracts for big contracts? Dont forget about jameer nelson's and howard's new deal kicking in next year. Cassell, absolutely theyd be interested in. But not if its attached to mobley's contract unless they could give up an equally bad contract. Also we wouldnt be 18 million under the cap with that trade.

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yamaneko

And thats totally your perrogative. I think there are two kinds of fans. Those who want to win championships as their main goal, or those who are just satisfied with entertaining basketball, good quality personnell, etc. Nothing wrong with that. What I do take issue is with someone who tries to put both of them together like painful who thinks that we can still be a championship team with basically what we have had the last 6 years that hasnt gotten us anywhere. If he would have said, hey, lets give brand the max because hes my favorite clipper, who cares if we dont win a championship, id have no problem with that, thats a personal opinion.

I dont think it was a mistake. Kaman so far this year has shown himself worthy of even more than his contract. I think we could have gotten him for less last off season, but still its worked out fine. Even if it was a quantifiable mistake, its done, history, and we know kaman isnt going anywhere, so no sense in sweating him. You are correct with our expiring deals being cassell, and potentially maggette and/or brand. Williams as well, but thats pocket change.

Of course team is nothing without brand period.Thats why this poll is so wack. Its not about brand or nothing. Im saying brand or kidd. Or Brand or Josh smith, or brand or arenas. Some kind of replacement. I wouldnt just let brand go and end up with nothing. Gasol is better than brand for the win column, plain and simple. Especially on this team with Kaman. Gasol puts teams on his back for the whole year, not to mention at the end of games. Brand hasnt done anything on his own. You put someone like gasol into a much better team that we have had, who knows where we would have gone. How many games over the last 4 years we lose down the stretch (when cassell wasnt playing), due to lack of that go to guy. Gasol is that guy. I wouldnt start out gasol if he were a free agent at 17 million+, i dont think hes elite. Id only give that kind of money to a duncan, garnett, or dirk. But id pay gasol 14 million a year before brand. And brand will be asking for 17 million next year. Id much rather have paid gasols 15 million than that.

Oh brother. I think its the other way around. Cassell was the resaon for brands increase. Just look at last year when cassell was injured again.

No one is blaming brand for the clipper woes. Hes just not the answer to win a championship at a max deal. Garnett was great with the wolves. Hes a true superstar, one of the best ever. Put his game winning baskets compared to brand over the last 7 years and its probably like 20-0. But twolves decided hey, paying 20 million to garnett and being capped out is not going to get us a championship, we need to rebuild and try something else, and thats what they did. Im saying we need to do the same. We know something doesnt work for US, so lets go in a different direction. Personally id like to see brand go to a team where he doesnt have to be the only star, and id like to see him succeed for all his hard work.

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PAIDNFULL23

Man, what the hell are you talkin about? Stop twist my words to fit your wack ***, novel-sized arguements. And I don't give a **** if you have an issue with people like me. What because I think the Clippers can be a very good team if they keep Brand and try to bring in someone else to play with him either through the draft, FA or trade?

And it DOESN'T matter if we almost signed someone. What did we get a consolation prize or something that I don't know of for ALMOST signing Kobe or Arenas? And I'm not saying that nobody would sign with us, I'm goin off your arguement about how you look at history and how we haven't do this or we haven't done that. And we haven't been good in signing high quality FAs. We have been decent in completing trades that get us good players. And most of the times when teams get lots a cap space they just end up overspending on players that aren't that great.

Basically, the point I'm trying to get through to you is that without Brand, the Clippers aren't that desirable of a destination for a player like Arenas who says he wants to play for a contender. So whats the point of hoping Brand leaves and we have lots of cap space if it isn't guaranteed that we can land someone that is his caliber or better? The reason we ALMOST signed Kobe was because he liked the talent that was already on the team and he felt that with him they could be very good and better than the Lakers. If we don't get Arenas and Brand opts out then we will be screwed. We will have a serious lack of talent or we will end up signing mediocre players to undesirable contracts.

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Predict the Clippers November Record Champ

bootstrenf

look at how the clippers are doing this year without brand...

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bootstrenf

people forget really quickly how good brand has been for us...they are of the opinion that we need some type of major rebuilding...and that process has to include getting rid of brand to free up cap space to sign a superstar savior type of free agent...i am of the opinion that we just need everyone healthy, and we need to get lucky in this year's draft...i've always been a supporter of drafting and making smart trades...waiting for a miracle FA siging will not work, because simply put, we are the clippers...no one will ever sign here...we need to build a tradition of winning built through homegrown talent and smartly acquired players....then, maybe good marquee FA's will consider the LAC...

i think that our best bet would be to resign brand, resign livingston, resign corey if his contract is reasonable, and just hope for a top 3 pick...kaman has developed nicely, and thornton can be a very nice player...

pg: livingston / rose
sg: rose / mobley
sf: maggette / thornton
pf: brand / thomas
ce: kaman / powell

i see a lineup that could compete right there...and although rose might be the best player in the draft, getting a scoring combo like mayo/gordon/or even bayless wouldn't be bad...and who knows, maybe we could even get beasley...


i think we need to just stick with out current team, and with a tiny infusion of talent, i really think our current squad can be special...


then again, maybe i'm being a huge homer...

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PAIDNFULL23

Bootstrenf, me and you are on the exact same page.

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“Hit him with a Glock, put him in a coma/Now what that boy got? Uh, glaucoma”

Lil' Wayne


Predict the Clippers November Record Champ

yamaneko

Tell me what words have I twisted? If youre going to accuse me of twisting your words have the decency to specify. Now you are back tracking and saying they will be just a "very good" team? Have you backed off the claim that paying brand max money gives them a shot at a championship? And also, are you saying that we only need to get better through the draft or trade? We lose Maggette and Cassell this offseason. Thomas and mobley will be even older. Lets say we luck out and get top 5 pick, perhaps oj mayo. In his rookie year, oj mayo probably isnt close to the impact guy that cassell was in 05.06. yet without maggette, without cassell, and with everyone else on the decline except kaman and thornton, you expect us to challenge for a championship or even be a "very good" team?

How about this. Can you at least admit this... You said that we have a chance to dip into free agency if we can somehow dump thomas and mobleys contracts...hey, I think its 2% chance, but of COURSE id like to dump one or both of those contracts. BUT, the realistic side of me says theres a snow ball's chance in a hot wind of that happening. So, if before this deadline, we cannot trade those two guys, will you at least admit that we are borderline playoff team at best the next two years if we keep brand, and stay capped out?

Again, yes it does. Why can't you face the facts? Its a different clipper team. You before were using the reasoning that no one would even consider us, so we have no shot at a decent free agent. (yet somehow maintain that we can dump mobley, thomas, and still sign a free agent, so not sure why youre playing both sides). I say this is not the clippers of the 90's. Almost getting top players does count because it means that players are considering us as a potential team to go to. Almost getting kobe is 1000X as good as kobe not even thinking about signing with memphis. We almost got kobe/arenas, etc. and ended up doing another first, signing a mid level guy in mobley. Its taking steps. When you almost sign a couple of the best players in the league, it means that best players in the league no longer consider us a joke, and were a coin flip away perhaps from someone coming here in the future.

What "contender" will have the cap space or sign and tradeability to get an arenas?

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yamaneko

My number 1 option is trade brand now as part of a deal for someone along the likes of AK47, kidd, carter, etc. etc. My number 2 option is sign and trade brand in the offseason again for someone along the lines of the aforementioned, or arenas, any other stars on the block. In those situations by definition were getting someone back. Now, worst case scenario, brand opts out, and we hit the market. Still, thats better than the alternative, because it gives us a CHANCE to make a move, whereas if we lock ourselves in with brand were stuck..little upside. With the cap space we have huge upside, whereas the downside is, we perhaps bring in an expiring deal like kittles, and try again the next year...we miss the playoffs, just like its likely we do with brand anyway.