robyg1974

Don't call me an idiot--read this article, click on this link:

http://www.realgm.com/src_gm_article...id=brave_world

The people at realgm provide the best content on the web you'll FIND regarding how today's NBA works.

After you fellers read the article, why don't we discuss it?

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Roby G.

The OUTLAW

I still don't think that the trade would work moneywise

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One thing a non-conformist can't stand is another non-conformist who doesn't conform to the prevailing standards of non-conformity.

robyg1974

Hey, way to not even read the article. The Clips are the ONLY team that is way under the salary cap right now, they can take on a salary without having to match it money-wise. Why do you think the Nuggets were able to take on Don Reid in that trade with Orlando? Orlando traded them the Clips' 2003 #1 pick and Don Reid for a future second-round pick. The Nuggets could do that because they were a LITTLE bit below the salary cap (by a few million). The Clips are WAY under the cap right now, they could actually pull a COUPLE of heists like the one the Nuggets pulled. Probably even bigger, once teams REALLY start freaking out.

PEOPLE! You need to READ THAT ARTICLE! If you want to understand why this summer has been so weird--if you want to understand why teams are freaking out so much about the luxury tax--YOU NEED TO READ THIS ARTICLE! Do it!

THEN, we can talk about it! Reading that article is WAY more important than another retarded Kobe vs. T-Mac discussion! DO IT!

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Roby G.

shroombal

wut a boring article...

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Stop making up trades

MightyReds2020

This trade will work cap wise because Clippers are significantly under the cap and they could trade their picks for most players. However, I don't see this as possible because the Clippers have their own FA issues. They will prefer to sign someone to a one-year deal because they need all this money to resign FA-to-be Elton Brand, Andre Miller, Michael Olowokandi, or even Lamar Odom. Unless Donald "Stingy" Sterling willing to open his pocket in the future which is not likely

starbonis

even with my poor english, I understand that this lux-tax is something to be considered with in the years to come.

How will teams fighting for Duncan, Kidd or Garnett do to have the space under this cap. Trading major players for future picks is certainly not the safest way to build.

On the other , having teams spending millions is also not really equitable considering the sport spirit of fairness facing the challenge

robyg1974

If you want to actually UNDERSTAND what goes on in the NBA, you need to understand the economics of the NBA. In other words, you have to actually read articles that seem a little boring (although I think this article is fascinating, certainly the most fascinating NBA-related article I've read all summer.) Otherwise, you're doomed to a "Who's better, Kobe or T-Mac?" existence.

Do you really want to just sit around dumbfounded when Orlando trades Don Reid and a 1st round pick to the Nuggets for a 2nd round pick? WOULDN'T you LIKE to understand WHY a trade like that would HAPPEN?

C'mon, shroombal, try reading that article again, you'll thank me for it later.

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Roby G.

Dragnsmke1

So basically if your team is already over the tax you have to match that $ for $ and pay a 10% fee plus miss out on a possible 18 million dollar rebate? (did I get this right?)

From an owners point of view I can see why I would dump top notch players and potential top notch players if your under or near bieng under the limit.

If your over your already screwed any way so owners like Cuban(who actually likes owning a team not the prestige of saying he owns a pro team) might as well throw the money @ players because they are going to miss out on the rebate any way.
Help me out if I got this wrong. I might need it put in laymans terms.

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All Or Nothing

robyg1974

The point of this article isn't really to back up a Wally World for a 2nd round pick trade scenario, it's to give you guys an understanding of WHY such a lop-sided trade would actually make SENSE for a team just over the luxury tax brink like Minnesota.

HOWEVER, the more assets you have, the better. The Clips could trade a 2nd round pick for Wally World and THEN, if they don't want to re-sign him (and they DON'T), they could turn around and trade him for a lottery pick next summer. Is this unfair? YES, I guess--but we're talking about economics here, people!

The Clips could trade a 2nd rounder for Wally, and THEN turn around and trade him to the Knicks for New York's 2003 or 2004 #1 pick and Othella Harrington. Or to the Rockets for Houston's 2004 or 2005 #1 pick, Kenny Thomas, and Jason Collier. Or to the Hawks for Atlanta's 2004 or 2005 #1 pick, Dermarr Johnson, and Emmanuel Davis. Or the Jazz for Utah's 2003 #1 pick, John Amaechi, and Deshawn Stevenson.

I know all of this sounds ridiculous from a BASKETBALL standpoint, but when you look at it from an ECONOMIC standpoint, it makes a TON of sense! So GO READ THAT ARTICLE!

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Roby G.

robyg1974

No, you seem to be getting it, Dragnsmke1. The Timberwolves, by dumping Wally World (and the $2.9 mil he is owed for next season) on the Clips in exchange for a future 2nd round pick, would go from being INSIDE of luxury tax territory (a $52+ payroll) to OUTSIDE of luxury tax territory (a sub-$52 mil payroll). Of course, Kevin McHale just made that offer to Ricky Davis, so maybe Minnesota is one of those teams that doesn't GET IT.

Unless Minnesota and Cleveland are doing something we don't KNOW about. A Wally-for-Davis swap that would include several other players, a swap that would get Minnesota OUT of luxury tax territory and Wally World INTO a Cavs uniform longterm? Who knows.

ANYWAY, you seem to be getting it, Dragnsmke1. Here's another scenario that might happen, just so you can get a feel for how this works.

Alonzo Mourning to the Mavs; Nick Van Exel, Shawn Bradley, and Evan Eschmeyer to the Heat

Van Exel, Bradley, and Eschmeyer make a COMBINED $17.8 mil next year. Mourning makes $20.6 mil. The trade works salary-wise. The Heat's payroll WITH Mourning = around $55 mil. The Heat's payroll AFTER this trade = around $52 mil. SO, more players would probably have to get involved: Anthony Carter, Laphonso Ellis, Tariq Abdul-Wahad. Maybe even Brian Grant and Michael Finley, I don't know.

THE POINT HERE is that the Heat would actually consider this trade, because it makes so much sense from an ECONOMIC standpoint. They would save themselves over $20 MILLION by agreeing to such a deal. What do YOU think the owner of the Heat is more interested in, holding onto Mourning for one more year and winning 40 ballgames or saving himself OVER $20 MILLION? You know?

Pretty crazy, huh?

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Roby G.

The OUTLAW

Okay I must admit that I didn't read the entire article, just read until I got the gist of the message but I didn't get down to the part where the Clips were specifically mentioned. does anyone believe the the Clips braintrust would be smart enough to do this especially since I believe that this is the only year that they will be under for quite a while. They could use those additional picks to reload.

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One thing a non-conformist can't stand is another non-conformist who doesn't conform to the prevailing standards of non-conformity.

robyg1974

Elgin Baylor is one smart cookie. And Donald Sterling is a very shrewd businessman. I gotta think that this is the reason why nothing has been done about Michael Olowokandi yet. By re-signing Olowokandi, they will jeopardize all that cap room they currently have. By making a couple of shrewd trades with some DESPERATE teams, teams that are currently IN luxury tax territory just BARELY (those teams are, just so you know, Milwaukee, Toronto, Minnesota, Indiana, Miami, Atlanta, Memphis, Phoenix, and, if they re-sign Rashard Lewis to more than what they're currently offering, Seattle), BEFORE dealing with Olowokandi, the Clippers can really LOAD UP on some great assets.

Here's what they can try to get from each team:

MILWAUKEE: Sam Cassell and the Bucks' 2003 #1 pick (should be around #8-#9 overall) for a 2nd round pick

TORONTO: Michael Bradley, Mamadou N'Dyaiae, and the Raptors' 2003 #1 pick (should be around #11-#12 overall) for a 2nd round pick

MINNESOTA: Wally World for a 2nd round pick

INDIANA: Ron Artest and Primoz Brezec for a 2nd round pick

MIAMI: Laphonso Ellis and the Heat's 2003 #1 pick (should be around #11-#12 overall) for a 2nd round pick

ATLANTA: DerMarr Johnson and Emmanuel Davis for a 2nd round pick

MEMPHIS: Stromile Swift and Tony Massenburg for a 2nd round pick

PHOENIX: Joe Johnson (or Casey Jacobsen) and Randy Brown for a 2nd round pick

SEATTLE: Brent Barry for a 2nd round pick

BY THE WAY, Mamadou N'Dyaiae, Emmanuel Davis, Tony Massenburg, and Randy Brown are ALL free agents after next season, so the Clips WOULDN'T be committing themselves to unwanted multiyear contracts by acquiring one or more of these dudes.

ALSO, the Clips SHOULD be able to make TWO of the above trades. THEN they can worry about dealing with Olowokandi.

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Roby G.

starbonis

considering that all players want the max of money, this situation is going to go into a mess. The best economic solution is to have a teams full of rookies, without any couple of stars ???

Is there an economic reason in the Robison/kukoc trade

TomBoerwinkle#1

Since it is the name players who are the most important to the NBA in terms of marketing, ratings, etc. and thus, generating revenue, it would seem to me that the best interest of the NBA would be to tweak this proposed new system in such a way as to make such lopsided trades, made out of financial desparation, less likely. A Wally World's marketing value would surely be diminished if fans can say, well...I guess he wasn't worth the extra money, and he was only worth a second round pick.

Likewise, the prospect of fans' favorite players being shuttled from team to team for pure economic reason will be a turn off to fans.

I understand the goal of equalizing the haves and have nots in the league to a certain extent, and prevent a New York Yankees "buy the best team available, because we have the money to do it" dominance. I know its tough for small market teams to compete if the market is laizzez-faire.

That being said, the NBA as a whole is one big product, and too much parity would seem to make for a less exciting league.

I hope the arbitrations will work out a way to address some of these luxury tax issues, so that there is a little less of a Robin Hood mentality to the system, and the bizarre prospective trades cited in the article don't become NBA reality.

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You can't fake the funk.

robyg1974