RD

Re: The PG position.

McInnis sucks. I couldn't be happier that he's not coming back. He can't distribute the rock, and can't play defense. He can't run a break, and gets to caught up in going one on one with his man. He'd be a decent backup PG cuz of his ability to hit the mid range jumper, but his ego won't allow that. Let him go and say good riddance.

I say let the current players, with the addition of Marko Jaric, get their crack at the spot. We have a lottery pick from 2 years ago, who hasn't gotten on the floor much cuz of injuries and his rookie experience, but he's had 2 years of watching NBA basketball. Give him the chance to show his stuff. Then of course, Jaric. Some experts are saying he'd be a high lotto pick in this years draft if he were in it. That means he could be right up there with Jason Williams, AND, his style is more of what this team needs(pass first). Why just toss him aside to take Williams? And of course there's Odom.
IMO, let the current guys get their shot at winning the job. The Clippers are not winning a title this year. I watch every game and and going to watch every game wanting a win, but I know in reality the team is not a title contender. So, I think we should just let the young guys play and develop and see just what we have on the team already.
If, after this year, the PG spot is still unsettled, take a crack at the FA's - Davis or Miller might not get dealt this year, but are FA's next year. Work a Sign and Trade with one of them. Or, look at the draft. Chris Duhon and TJ Ford are pass first PG's, which is a better fit than any PG in this years draft. If it comes down to that, look at one of them.

The Bottom Line IMO is just let the current players at PG battle it out this year and see what they can do.

Re: Which young talent is expendable.

IMO, the players the Clippers absolutely HAVE To keep are Lamar Odom Elton Brand. As long as these two are on the team, this team will be a playoff contender.

LO is the ONLY player on this team that is potentially the franchise caliber player that can carry a team to the title. Nobody else has that type of talent. Elton Brand just isn't physicall gifted enough. Darius Miles probably won't ever develop that tremendous feel for the game and naturalness that Odom has. Q and Maggette and Olowokandi aren't good enough. This is the reason I say we need to keep LO this year and not move him. If he has more problems or doesn't play like he did before this past year, then look to move him. But I think we have to give him the chance to prove himself again cuz if this team wants to win a title, he has the ability to lead them there.

And while Elton isn't a franchise player, he's a fantastic secondary/complementary player, especially to Odom. He's that consistent, hard working low post player that is going to give you a double double every night. His low post ability complements Odom's perimeter/slashing style.

Now, some might ask about DMiles. I fully expect him to be in the same class with LO and Brand in terms of being a key player. I think Brand, LO, and Miles are the 3 players that can lead this team to a title. But, right now, he isn't at that level. Thats just my own expectations of him, so I don't want to throw him in that group just yet.

And some may ask about Olowokandi. He is a guy that I do think is expendable. Kandi did improve this past season, and I couldnt be happier. But, he isn't worth anywhere near the MAX, and that is the type of contract he is going to command. He isn't good enough to get that type of money, and with guys like LO, Brand, and Miles, I would preferably not pay this guy that money. I don't want the team to get in a Vin Baker type situation where they pay a solid big man huge money and get tied down cuz of it, but they can't take the team to the next level. If Kandi could be had at a reasonable price, it'd be great to keep him around. But, he won't. He's a C, in a C starved league, and he's going to get paid. Thats why I say let him walk after next year(re-sign him for this year to allow for time to develop someone else).

Of the other guys: Q, Maggette, and Dooling, I think Maggette is the most expendable.
For starters, he's a FA at the same time LO and Brand are. We have excellent depth on the wing, so there's no need to re-sign him and make it 3 huge paydays at the same time. He's going to get money somewhere cuz he's a hard worker and athletic. Somebody will pay him. But, with LO and Miles and Q, and then Doolings ability to play the 2guard spot, and Jaric's ability to play the 3 spot(he's 6'7/8), we don't need Maggette.
Q is already better than Maggette, AND, is on his rookie contract for a couple more years. And, he's good friends with Q so he has that advantage as well. I think Maggette is the odd man out on this team, cuz of the position he plays, when he's up for FA, and to a lesser extent, his relationship with others(moreso when compared with Q, and Q has that closeness with DMiles - And Miles will probably be one of those key players).

If Im picking who to build around, Im building around LO, DMiles, and Brand. Maggette and Kandi are expendable IMO.

Re: the Draft.

At 8, I want Nene Hilario. He 's 6'10 in barefeet and 260lbs as a 19 year old. He's big enough now, and is only going to get bigger. IMO, he could be that replacement for Kandi when Kandi leaves AFTER next year(in my scenario). He has 2 years of experience overseas. He has a fantastic work ehtic and drive, and by that time, he'll have 2 summers to workout, and 1 year of playing experience. I think he'd be ready to play by then.

At 12, I'd like to see Tskitishvilli taken. Talent wise, there is no way in hell he'll be here. But, he hasn't played much overseas, so there's no way he's ready to play in the NBA. He's going to need another year or two overseas. Because of that, some teams will shy away, and that wll make him fall. If he's here, take him. We don't need him right now, but his potential down the road is huge, and we are one of the copule teams that can wait on him. If he's gone, I'd look at Marcus Haislip, Amare Stoudemire, or even Bostjan Nachbar cuz of his shooting ability.

Don't trade the picks. Keep them. Don't trade Odom. Keep him. The only player I'd be fine with moving right now is Maggette, so that'd be alright, but keep everyone else and let the team develop.

Geez, that was long. Thank you and goodnight

basketball_jesus

The Clips must get rid of Odom so Darius can bloom. I don't know about this Jaric guy, but I still think they need a point guard. Odom and either the 8th or 12th seems like a great deal to get either Baron Davis or Andre Miller. If they did this trade, drafted nene, and kept Kandi this team would be a playoff tema, and a good one at that.

Damian Necronamous

The Clippers need to trade Odom and the 8th or 12th pick to Cleveland for Andre Miller. Miller distributes the rock, and would really help the Clippers.

__________________
Chick Hearn: This game is in the refrigerator. The door is closed, the lights are out, the eggs are gettin' cool, the butter's gettin' hard, and the jellooooooo's jigglin'!

Current 2007-2008 LA Lakers Roster
PG: Derek Fisher, Jordan Farmar
SG: Kobe Bryant, Sasha Vujacic, Coby Karl
SF: Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, Trevor Ariza, Ira Newble
PF: Pau Gasol, Ronny Turiaf, Vladimir Radmanovic
C: Andrew Bynum, Chris Mihm, D.J. Mbenga

basketball_jesus

Word.

RD

I can't believe you guys want to trade Odom.

That is ridiculous.

I know he wasn't on the court last year, for a couple reasons, but if you are really a Clipper fan, you truly understand what he means to this team. Let's not forget that Odom led a bunch of young, inexperienced players to double their win total from the previous year. Let's also not forget, that for the 10 game stretch that Odom was healthy and on the court last year, the clippers went 8-2 and were one of the hottest teams in the league.
If you are a true fan of the team, you remember this, and you know just how important he is to the team.

Darius Miles is my favorite player in the NBA. His enthusiasm and his closeness in age to me have drawn me to him. I think he is going to be a star in the NBA. BUT, he will not ever be as good as Lamar Odom. Odom has the ability to be a true franchise player, one of the to 5 players in the game. Miles does not have the court vision or feel that Odom has. Very few do. Thats what sets Odom apart from the rest of the 6'10 players in this league.

There is one player that the Clippers have on their roster that could possibly win them a title. You need that true superstar to win a title. The only player that fits that bill in LA is Lamar Odom. Its not Elton Brand. Its not Darius Miles. Its not Quentin Richardson. And it certainly is not Andre Miller(though I am a HUGE fan of his; local ties, plus I know a guy who played college ball with him). None of these players have the ability level to be a franchise player and won't be the player to take the team to a title. Odom is the only one that can potentially do that.

And, you do not need to get rid of Odom to let Miles flourish. Both can play together. There are two things the team needs to do - A, get rid of McInnis. This one has already been done. This opens up huge minutes. And B, cut Maggette's minutes(preferably trade him). I love Maggette. But, it's clear that he isn't as good as Q or Miles or Odom, and does not have the upside. He's the odd man out, and he needs to be moved to clear room for Miles. Not Odom. There are very few players in the league I would move Odom for, and Miles isn't one.

If LA trades Odom, they may become a very good team, but they will never win a title. They'll never make it that far in the West. They'll become a Seattle like team in that they are good enough to make the playoffs consistently, but they'll never get close enough for a title. With Odom, anything is possible.

And then of course, the actual deal proposed. Odom and a lottery pick for Miller? Yeah right. Baylor and Co. have already said that ain't happening cuz thats way too high a price. At least Baylor is wise enough to realize how good Odom is, and I hope he doesn't have a brain fart and let Odom slip out at the last minute.

I understand people have forgotten how good Odom is because of this past year. But, he is clearly the best player on the team. He is the best player the Clippers have ever had. They need to keep him. If for some reason, his problems of this past year bother him next year, THEN, move him. But you cannot move him now. If they do, they will regret it for a long time.

basketball_jesus

I agree that Lamar Odom is a great player. He is the do all type of guy that is hard to find in the League. But do I think he is better than Elton Brand? No. Elton is consistant, and is, and allways will be a better player than Lamar. I think Darius will someday be better than Lamar Odom too. Here is a comparison of Elton Brand from this year with Lamar Odom of 00-01. (I did it this way because Lamar was injured allmost all year and his stats this year weren't flattering)

Elton Brand 80 80 37.8 .527 .000 .742 5.00 6.60 11.60 2.4 1.00 2.04 2.16 3.20 18.2


LAMAR ODOM*(00-01) LAC 76 74 37.3 .460 .316 .679 1.40 6.30 7.80 5.2 .97 1.61 3.47 3.10 17.2

Brand scores more points, grabs more rebounds, shoots a much better percentage (46% from a 6-10 player?), gets more blocks, and more steals, and is much more consistant.

RD

You just proved absolutely nothing in your last post.

If you have ever seen Lamar Odom play, you know the value he has goes WELL beyond stats. And thats aside from the point - You should never judge a player based on stats. It's pointless to do so cuz there are so many variables that go into stats.

You said it yourself, Elton Brand is consistent. He's not a franchise player. Brand will NEVER lead a team anywhere. He was the leader on the Bulls and all he did was lead them to high lottery picks. Odom led a bunch of rookies and career scrubs to a HUGE turnaround and then they got lucky in last years draft and moved up in the lottery. Odom has already proven that he can do more ofr a team by himself than Brand can.

Odom is the type of player that you can put on your back and ride. He's one of the rare players that can go out every night and get a triple double. Odom can drop 10 dimes on any given night - From a FORWARD position. He can go out and put up 30 points if the team needs it. Odom can do anything and everything asked of him. Brand cannot. I love Elton Brand. He gives full effort every night and ends up with the same statline every night. But he is not a guy who can put up 25+ or be a guy to carry a team. He is not physically gifted enough to be a franchise caliber player. Heart can only take you so far. Elton has some talent, but he is what he is based more on his effort and determination. You need that talent level to be a franchise player and carry a team. elton doesn't have that. Lamar does.

If the Clippers trade Odom and expect Brand to lead them, they will never make even the Wester Finals. With Odom, they can win it all. Will they definitely? Can't say. But at least Odom gives them the chance to.

basketball_jesus

Odom is a great player I agree. I love Lamar. But to say he can do whatever the team needs? How about, not getting suspended by the league for smoking pot....TWICE!!!! He is a great player, and if we didn't have Darius Miles I would love to keep Odom. This has nothing to do with Odom's drug problems. I just think that calling him a team leader who will do whatever it takes is a bit much. I know you hate stats, and they are not a good way to win an argument, but they can help to show someone what you are talking about. You say that Brand can't get more than 25 points a night, but his career high is 44 points. Ten more than that of Odoms 34. I think that Odom hasn't reached his full potential yet, and that he is a force on the court, but the Clippers have Darius who I think will one day be better than Odom. They need a point guard and I would jump at the opportunity to trade Odom for a good one. (Baron Davis or Andre Miller) When Brand talks the Clippers listen. Can you really say the same of Odom anymore?

RD

I do believe that when LO speaks, the team listens. Even after the suspension and injuries, the players and management have gone out of their way to mention him as a team leader and a key player to their future.

Weed isn't really a big deal. By that I mean to the players. Sure, it is going to get him suspended(which I do not think it should be, but thats another discussion), but you know that other players do it, and it's not something that the players would look down on him for. So I don't think that the team(players/organization) has written him off or completely shunned him as part of the future. I do think they listen when he speaks.

I do think Odom can do anything needed. Odom can bring the ball up and play a distributor/PG role. He can play on the wing and shoot the rock, or he can drive at will and get off an easy layin with his left hand. He can play down low and use his left hook to score. He can go down low and grab boards when he needs to.
He may not do these things all the time(I mean, nobody as talented as him do what they can every night - by that, I mean Shaq could go for 50 every night if he wanted to, but he doesn't). But, he can carry a team. Odom led the 18yo Miles, 20year old Q, 20 yo Dooling(all rookies), and 20 year old Maggette and a bunch of scrubs to doubling their win total from the year before.

Odom's versatility means that everybody else can be a bit more free in their roles. Odom, as a SF, can take the ball and allow the PG to utilize his scoring ability(if he has it) and his one on one abilities. Odom can be the scorer. I think what truly sets Odom apart is his unselfishness(on the court). In fact, he may even be too unselfish at times. He is a potential superstar that LOVES to distribute the rock. How many guys can you say that about nowadays? You can't even name too many PG's that like to pass first, let alone a forward like Odom.

I guess where we differ is on our assessment of the Odom/Miles situation. I think both can play together, but if pressed to pick one, Im taking Odom. And I do not say this being a huge Odom fan and a Miles hater. Miles is my favorite basketball player. Miles has a very good feel for the game and that has helped him contribute at an early age while his skills are still raw. He is a better athlete and can jump higher than Odom. But, I can't see him being better than Odom. Miles is versatile, but he can't do everything Odom can do, and I dont see him developing into it either. Odom's court vision and passing ability and his natural feel for the game(as I said Miles has a very good one, but Odom's is just so much more advanced) set him apart from just about every other player in the league IMO. I can think of only a couple players that have the vision and sense that Odom has in running an offense(Kidd and Stockton come to mind). Thats why he's special, and thats why he has to be kept IMO.

He has to be kept for this season at least if you ask me. If after this year he can't regain his play from before, then let him go. But he's too good to give up on right now. Nobody that they can get in return for him can be the type of player Odom can be IMO. Miller is an excellent player, but he can't become the type of player LO can be. Neither can Jason Williams.
I am going to be extremely upset if they move Odom this offseason because I honestly believe that if they do, they have shot their chances at ever(well in the next 10 years) reaching the Finals.

basketball_jesus

I never really thought about Darius and Lamar playing side by side, and if we kept Odom and can see that working. Odom is flexable which helps on a team with so much talent. He can fill in the holes the others can't. In my opinion Miles will someday be better than Odom, but that is a few years off. If Miles and Odom played SG and SF it would be scary for the opponents because the Clippers can go into every game knowing that at the SG and SF positions they are taller than their their opponents starters. Check this lineup...

PG Keyon Dooling 6-3
SG Darius Miles 6-9
SF Lamar Odom 6-10
PF Elton Brand 6-8
C Kandi Man 70

Except for EB, the Clippers starting lineup could easily be bigger at every position that their opponents. Scary.

RD

And those possible matchup problems are the reason why I want Odom and Miles on this team. And because both are unselfish, it is great for the others on the team because they won't take everything on their own and they'll let the others get involved.

As long as this team has Miles, Odom, and Brand in the starting lineup, I think this team can push for a title.

I do not get that same feeling if Kandi is in there over one of them(though I know thats another thread). And I don't get that feeling if it's Andre Miller or Jason Williams instead of Odom.

Part of the reason I think this team has so much potential is because of the versatility that Odom and Miles have. If you trade Odom for a guy like Miller, even though Miller is a fantastic player, I think it takes away from that. It puts the team in more of a traditional role with it's PG and SF, rather than something unique that teams truly need to focus on to beat with wings like Odom and Miles. Both of them have the ball handling ability and unselfishness to make up for the lack of a true PG in the form of Miller IMO, and I couldn't imagine a better duo.

I think Odom will always be the superior player, but I think Miles will be a star, and that duo, along with Brand's consistent low post work will make this team a winner. I want those 3 together at any cost. And that is a huge reason why I do not want to see Odom go anywhere.

basketball_jesus

I think I am starting to come around to your feelings on Odom. For a while I was blinded by the idea of getting a good true point guard at any cost, but now I see that, allthough neccisary at some point, we don't need to get one at any cost. I think trading Maggette (which I would hate to do) is now important. This opens up playing time for Q, Miles, and Odom. That way those three players can take all of the SG and SF playing time. That is 96 minutes per game for these three and I think they deserve it all. Odom could also sometimes play the PG spot and that way all three can be playing at once. Do you think that we could still, at some point, get a good point guard for Maggette and the 8th? (or 12?) This would make this team allmost unstopable. On the other hand maybe Jaric and Dooling can work it out.

RD

I definitely think the team can make a move for a PG without involving Odom or Miles or Brand.

Keyon Dooling, Corey Maggette, Marko Jaric, picks 8 and 12 is a TON of ammo to make a move.

I happen to agree that trading Maggette has to happen, and I also feel the same about losing him. I just think it has to happen with the other guys on the team, because they seem to be better players and still have big upsides, that he is expendable, and time needs to be cleared for them. And he's a FA next year, and is going to command a pretty big salary based on potential, and we don't need to pay him to be a 4th wing player.

The PG situation is a tough one. We have Dooling who is loaded with talent, and Jaric who is supposed to be loaded with talent(never seen him play, so can't comment from first hand knowledge).

Do we want to hand over the reigns to a youngster right now is the biggest question. And I go back and forth on that idea.
Being realistic, this team is not a title contender right now. We still are young and maturing, and need experience. We could let the 2 young guys hold all PG responsibilities this year and watch them grown and gain that game experience. That way, in a year or two, when we are contenders(assuming the best), they have plenty of experience.
Or, do we trade for a vet PG to help teach them, but also keep them off the court as much as they might be without that guy? I can see the pro's in both scenarios, but I really can't say which way to go.

I'd like a guy like a Mark Jackson or Eric Snow cuz they are unselfish and are vets that could really mentor the young guys.

Or, we could go all out, and make a push for a Miller by giving up Dooling(or Jaric, whatever they prefer), Maggette, and both picks. Cleveland could almost have a whole new roster with that. They can draft Hilario at 6, Woods at 8, and Dan Dickau at 12.
They could have a lineup of Dooling, Davis, Maggette, Mihm, and Ilgauskas, with Dickau, Woods, Hilario, and Diop learning as backups. Just obvious speculation on my part, but I think they might accept that if they truly want to deal Miller.

I do think there are PG options out there without giving up a key player. Whether thats trading for a star PG to take over, or trade for a vet to mentor the youth, or just go with the young guys, I'm not sure. But, there are plenty of options IMO without giving up a key player for this team(which IMO is the trio of Odom, Miles, and Brand).

denverguru

he is okay, but in a trade he would have to be packaged with something in order to get a point guard of the quality you are talking about, how about this no brainer, you have two lottery picks, trade one of these picks down to a team that wants to move up for a later first round pick and a second round pick and gamble on a guy that is unslelfish with the ball like williams, he plays some excellent d, and always looks to pass first.

basketball_jesus

I wouldnt mind playing Jaric and Dooling as our point guards this year, but because I have a lot of respect for Maggette, instead of regulating him to the bench this year, which is what would happen, he deserves to be traded to a team where he gets some pt. With him, Maggette, and out 2 lottery picks, and either Jaric or Dooling we can play hardball and go after a lot of people who are on the table. I wouldn't mind shopping these players for a point. That seems like the way to go this year. My opinion has changed and I say the Clips SHOULD keep Odom.