Petey

Agree that O'Neal is certainly a stud...

but something else, the Clippers better sign Kandi-man otherwise the other guys will follow his example, and just leave town, you have to take care of your own.

-Petey

RD

I don't understand that one.

You say you don't see anyone on the Clips being a stud, but then you think Bender will be?

Odom, Q, Maggette, Brand, and Miller have shown more already, or more potential to be studs than Bender has. I realize Miller and Brand aren't guys who will be those superstuds, but Bender hasn't even shown the potential to even be on their level.

I was a huge Bender fan when he came out, and have defended him against the people who have called him a bust, but I can't see how anyone could label him a stud after what he's shown in the NBA to date.

I agree with you to an extent about the Clips and that one stud. I think ODom is the only player on the team that has that type of ability. I personally feel that his suspensions are behind him. It's all a matter of staying healthy. I think Odom will be that player as long as he does stay healthy. I do think it's a valid concern to worry about, but I do believe that Odom will be that player for the Clippers.

JOHNNY_BRAVisimO

its like this, there are certain players that just scream future superstar(darius miles), thats what bender is, but he dosent get consistant playing time which he needs to get in a groove on a consistant basis

bender has actually shown that he will be a superstar one day, he's got all the tools, the talent, all he needs is the playing time, he is a super freak athletically, he has darius miles-like athletisicm, tyson chandler size, and a pure stroke all the way to the three point line, he can play 4 positions

you'd have to be able to have seen all of the pacer games to be able to find games where he showed this talent, because they were far between each other because the pacers have harrington, oneal, croschere and rose(now artest and mercer instead of rose) at the 2/3/4 spots, but he showed alot more in the second half of the season

the reason i feel that bender will be a future superstar and not brand, dre etc... is because bender has the physical tools to one day be able to physically dominate his opponents, much like kg and gasol, not to mention the fact that he already has the talent to back the physical tools up,

the clippers do have odom who has that potential, and i hope he reaches it

__________________
(Rick Carlisle[2003 Coach of the Year] on the play of Chicago’s Jamal Crawford) "Jamal averaged 30 against us last year when we played them with Detroit. He looks just as good if not better. He's a tremendous player, explosive. He can do a lot of things. He's a piece you can build a franchise around. He played great tonight. He played a lot of minutes, too- 51."

RD

I have to disagree on a couple accounts.

Bender doesn't have Chandler size. Tyson is not monster by any means, but he's got a good 20lbs at least on Bender.

Bender can't play 4 positions. He can play 2.

There is no way he can play the point. Not good enough handles, and not quick enough to cover them.
No way he can play the 5, not near big, strong, or tough enough.
He can't really play the 4 either, for the same reasons he can't play the 5. He isn't bulky enough, or strong enough. He doesn't have the attitude to bang either. I can buy him playing some minutes as a 4 in small lineups, but so could Corey Maggette(Hey, Jumaine Jones did it, and he's not near as strong or tough as Maggette), and I don't consider him a guy who can play the 4.

Bender can play the 2 and 3, and thats about it. That's perfectly fine, you only need one position, but I don't buy the argument that he can play 4 spots.

I do agree that Bender may have the physical gifts that Brand, Miller, etc may have. But, so does Keon Clark. And he isn't anywhere near their class, even though he's far superior in terms of physical tools.

Like I said, I'm a fan of Bender, and he may someday be a star. I don't believe he'll ever be a superstar, or he would be showing more of it right now.

I think he'll be a future contributor to the Pacers, but I don't ever think he reaches even star status(where I think Miller/Brand are), let alone superstar status.

Bender may indeed emerge someday, but I think that's just too big a question mark to even mention.

I think O'Neal is the only potential stud on that team, and he isn't there yet IMO. He's still got some work to do. Right now, I think him and Brand are pretty equal. Not studs, but excellent players. The difference being that Jermaine still has more room to improve because of the physical gifts. I don't think the Pacers have anyone else who has that type of ability. And as I said before, I think Odom is the only one for the Clips. Each team needs those players to emerge for them to take the next step up. Otherwise, neither team takes that step up, cuz I don't think there is anyone else currently on their rosters with that type of ability. Just my opinion ...

JOHNNY_BRAVisimO

i have to disagree, bender is not soft at all, he is a traffic dunker, he posterizes guys with ferocious dunks in traffic, like tmac can




bender plays his best ball at the 4 spots because he takes advantage of his man with his quickness, see the picture above, bender was playing PF with oneal at center. bender is also known for his uncanny shot-blocking

btw... its me ZHI_ZHI's_WANG from nbadraft.net, i've had discussions with you before

__________________
(Rick Carlisle[2003 Coach of the Year] on the play of Chicago’s Jamal Crawford) "Jamal averaged 30 against us last year when we played them with Detroit. He looks just as good if not better. He's a tremendous player, explosive. He can do a lot of things. He's a piece you can build a franchise around. He played great tonight. He played a lot of minutes, too- 51."

Pacers Fan

even as the biggest pacers fan in the world i gotta say clipper i mean they'll be #4 in the west this year compared to us #3 in the east

we win 50 games they win 53 games bulls win 29 games

Kandi vs. Miller we win
Brand vs. JO even
Odom vs. Artest/Harrington we win
Q vs. Reggie we win
Miller vs. Tins they win

hey we look better on paper!

__________________
Visit the Indiana Pacers forum!

David Stern: "Indiana in the finals... I can't allow this."

JOHNNY_BRAVisimO

keon is an athletic jumping jack who knows how to use his athletisicm, he could be a 16 and 9 guy if he ever started, he dosent have the talent to drop 25ppg 12rpg, is more of a camby-type awsome shotblocking rebounding freak, but bender is as much of a freak, but he also has the talent to do more then that, he can shoot the three with a butter touch, handle the rock, defend etc... he's an inside-out player while keon is purely inside 10 feet

lets put it this way, your a clipper fan, and you know what miles can do, well bender is 7 feet, can do all the things miles does, but has a sweet stroke on his j all the way to the 3, and can play 4 positions

i understand where your coming from, when elton was a bull, people used to tell us ALL THE TIME that he would never be a full blown superstar, that he couldnt handle duncan, garnett etc... and as a bulls fan as well as an elton fan, i just didnt wanna hear it, i tuned out those people because i knew that elton was a hard worker and always give it his all, i always pointed out to his stats to "prove" that elton was a superstar, but stats dont tell the whole story, and from a scouting standpoint, i knew the doubters were right, but like i said, i just didnt want to hear it, and then we saw tmac totally explode into the star he is today, then jermaine oneal etc.. bender and miles are next

__________________
(Rick Carlisle[2003 Coach of the Year] on the play of Chicago’s Jamal Crawford) "Jamal averaged 30 against us last year when we played them with Detroit. He looks just as good if not better. He's a tremendous player, explosive. He can do a lot of things. He's a piece you can build a franchise around. He played great tonight. He played a lot of minutes, too- 51."

RD

While I'll agree that Clark isn't a 30/12 type player, I do believe he has the skills to be a star, and push 20/9 numbers.

Clark has a decent mid range jumper for a big man(4). He has excellent handles and driving ability for a 4. He's an excellent shot blocker, has long arms, and can grab boards.

He could be an excellent all around, very versatile 4man in the league if he figured out how to put all his skills to use.

As for the Miles comparison, again, I disagree. Bender has or does 2 things better than Miles - He's a couple inches taller, and he's a better shooter. That's it.

Miles is a far superior ball handler than Bender. He's a much better penetrator than Bender. And he's quicker/more athletic. I understand that Bender is a standout athlete as well, but he's not in Miles' class. He's the quickest, most athletic player over 6'8 in the league.
And defense is what sets everything apart. Bender may block some shots, cuz he's tall. But Miles does the same thing, and has fantastic defensive instincts and can cover anyone on the court, aside from the 5. He can be a shut down defender.

Miles has shown more ability in 2 years, than Bender has during his time. And most importantly, Miles has shown the feel for the game that very few guys from HS display that early.

And, I don't even think Miles is going to reach that dominant/stud level. So I don't see Bender making it either.

JOHNNY_BRAVisimO

bender hasnt played as much as miles had, miles was lucky enough to get on a team willing to play him like the bulls are with our guys, bender averaged less then 5mpg his first 3 years whereas miles has played 26mpg, miles didnt have to fight to get on the court, his playing time was given to him, bender had to sit behind jalen rose, al harrington, austin croschere, derrick mckie, and jermaine oneal, so i dont think you've seen enough of bender as i have to make such conclusions on him

we'll come back to this thread when bender is busting ***, im not sure how many minutes he'l get this year playing behind ron artest, austin croschere, jermaine oneal and al harrington, two of those guys will have to be traded this year for everyone to get a serious look at bender

__________________
(Rick Carlisle[2003 Coach of the Year] on the play of Chicago’s Jamal Crawford) "Jamal averaged 30 against us last year when we played them with Detroit. He looks just as good if not better. He's a tremendous player, explosive. He can do a lot of things. He's a piece you can build a franchise around. He played great tonight. He played a lot of minutes, too- 51."

RD

Bender may or may not reach superstar status. I just happen to think it's a much safer bet to make that he does not become one.

SkywalkerAC

i love the pacers, bulls, and clippers. i'd have to say that the clips have the edge over the pacers (although very close), cept they're in the west of course. pacers could very well make the finals this year. bender and miles are both studs in my opinion and i see no reason they won't be future all-stars. both next-gen sf's cept miles' shot needs some work (i'm sure it will come). bender may be the most athletic player 6'11" and up in the nba. i see bender's potential around KG and dirk; miles around t-mac and KG. i realize the magnitude of these comparisons and i'm not saying that these players will ever reach those levels but the potential is there. however, it will be miles (who's more ready at this point) that will be given a chance to flourish with cleveland and bender who will remain bogged down by the deep indi bench.

__________________
AC

THE'clip'SHOW

Its great to finally find a forum with real basketball fans. I'm as big a clipper fanatic as you'll find and this whole Kandi situation is frustrating, but dissapointing more. With the numbers he has produced in his career he shouldn't have demanded max money, especially from D.S. I was hoping he would approach with a resonable figure and begin a domino effect. If a deal between Kandi and the Clippers had been "relativly" smooth then the future negotiations regarding Brand, Odom and Maggette would've been alot easier on both sides. Clippers players need to see someone resigned desperately. I agree with everyone else when they say Kandi is not worth the max, and D.S. is limiting his risk of being stuck with a big contract, but Kandi is important, I just don't know what he was thinking asking for the max as if money issues with the organization could not be worse. Odom (if he performs this year), Brand, Maggette and even Miller are more important. Who knows though maybe Ely will be a big surprise and change this entire situation. Did you guys see the post comparing Swift to Miles, please Stromile better than D-Miles!

THE'clip'SHOW

Sorry guys I posted my message on the wrong thread. But what kind of contract does Reggie have? Is he going to be a Pacer for life or should they try and get something for him even if it upsets the fans.

THE'clip'SHOW

Sorry guys I posted my message on the wrong thread. But what kind of contract does Reggie have? Is he going to be a Pacer for life or should they try and get something for him even if it upsets the fans.