jazzy1

Are you serious , I mean really.

The offense stagnates not because Kobe doesn't facillitate as well but because the other players know the greatest scorer in the league can get it done and allow him to just try and get the buckets without moving to gt open.

With Lmar there's not the same confidence that he can produce, the other players know they have to help him or the whole offense will fail because he's not the scorer Kobe is. get it, the team has Kobe can carry it no faith that Odom can carry it. see the difference.

Kobe has for the most part of his career been a better facillitator than odom look up the numbers he's always been beter statistically. So where the proof of Odom being beter. On this team Kobe and PJ allow Odom to faillitate the offense because it free's Kobe up to do what he does best which is score.

Kobe can't post up and create his own shot as well what games are you watching,Kobe does everything offensively beter than odom thats not to say Lamar isn't very important but Kobe is just more valuable.

of course the rebounding has taken a hit odom is a great rebounder far greater than Kobe he's 6-10 with great timing and long arms and good hands. He's supposed to be.

Funny how when odom plays and has those timid games everybody is ready to run odom out of town now suddenly he's more valuable than Kobe. When Kobe almost single handily carried them into the playoffs last season.

lets have some persepctive here man.

Sir Patchwork

Can something be said about the difficulty difference in the 3 game samples? I mean, one of the games Kobe sat out was only because it was a cupcake game and he could use the extra rest.

__________________
The Bulls are back in business.

The One

Odom cannot guard well one-on-one. But he has worked on rotation D for the entire preseason. The startin five that the Lakers normaly have know each other well enough to rotate smoothly around the perimeter without getting comfused, with Odom gone Phil has to put in a new lineup that has to learn how each other reacts to the ball all over again. The Good news is that last game has shown that they are getting better.

Now the Rebounds - that will not get better because Odom is the only player on the team that boxes out (Bynum does boxout but his balance is horrible). When Odom was in the game everybody else just watches the ball and tries to tip it to their advantage instead of watching the opposing player to boxout (a whole lot harder than it sounds ) The Lakers better hope that they don't face too many rebounding team or they will be in serious trouble.


Go Lakers !

__________________

KennethTo

Odom is the best rebounder on the team, that is his primary value. When we have Odom at SF with Kwame, bynum at C and PF we are the best rebounding team in the league.

However defending man to man Odom is average. He defends better against guys that shoot and drive compared to post up players though IMO

__________________
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Fav players: Kobe Byrant, Jarrett Jack, Raymond Felton, Grant Hill, Leandro Barbosa, Corey Brewer, Javaris Crittenton, Yi Jianlian, Derrick Rose

Phil Jackson: "Bowen is a tenacious defender and will occasionally stick his leg underneath a player when he's up in the air."

KennethTo

However saying this, to imply that Odom is more valuable than Kobe in any way is idiotic.

If you cite 3 games in the begining of the season for the importance of Odom vs Kobe, then you need to take a intro to statistics course and learn how inaccurate small sample sizes can be. Otherwise you are probably just a Kobe troll pretending to be a laker fan just so you can bash Kobe.

__________________
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Fav players: Kobe Byrant, Jarrett Jack, Raymond Felton, Grant Hill, Leandro Barbosa, Corey Brewer, Javaris Crittenton, Yi Jianlian, Derrick Rose

Phil Jackson: "Bowen is a tenacious defender and will occasionally stick his leg underneath a player when he's up in the air."

upsanddowns

I'm not a troll that's trying to bash Kobe.

It's the truth.


Lamar's importance to this team is equal to or greater than Kobe's.



Lamar is the true key to the Lakers success. When he plays well, the Lakers most likely always thrive.


Look how crappy the Lakers have been playing these past games.

Lamar brings almost as much to the table as Kobe.


He's the Lakers best rebounder. Kwame or any of the other bigs don't even compare.

He's the Lakers best facilitator/passer.





I guess the Lakers are doing just fine without Lamar Odom?




They barely win against the Rockets after almost folding a 30 point lead.


They lose against the Mavs because no one on the Lakers could guard Dirk.


They barely win against the Rockets again...taking 2 over times and Kobe's full frontal effort.

They lose against the Wizards at home even with another overtime.

They had an 11 point lead against the Bulls and manage to fold that lead due to a lack of offensive execution and defense.

They manage to win against the Wolves only due to the Lakers bench.



Check the overall records when Lamar's out and when Kobe's out.


Kobe will always provide his share...but in my opinion, Lamar is more valuable...he does everything for this team.

__________________
"He who is not courageous enough to take risks will accomplish nothing in life."

-Muhammad Ali

ii9ce

Kobe can do all those things and more. Odom dosn't get doubled and triple teamed. Teams don't gear their D to stop Odom.

That said, I think they need each other and a defensive minded pg to win.

__________________
Bill Russell, the greatest. If you dont believe, count the rings.

afobisme

you know, if we go by your logic upsanddowns.. i guess kobe, lamar, and luke are insignificant pieces to this team. pretty much we outscored minnesota by 27 points or so with kobe, lamar, and luke out of the game.

maybe we should just trade them?

__________________

Laker Superstar 34

Lamar's rebounding is what's making him so valuable. Both he and Kobe along with Luke I think can be the facilitator. Luke mainly because he has a lot of court awareness and a great passing ability. The problem is that Phil isn't playing Ronny as much and we need another reounder. I mean, the less 2nd chance points we give up and the more possessions we have, the more we win. If only we gave Mihm along with the exception for a defensive minded PF that can rebound well. Heck, just give the exception and McKie, & Sasha for a defensive minded PF that rebounds well. That's what we should do. We do need a defensive minded quick PG, but I'd say we have a bigger need at a defensive minded PF that can rebound well, especially when Lamar is out.

__________________

The Andrew "Socks" Bynum Fan Club

KDOS

I think Kobe has showed and has proven how great of a facilitator he is. LA's last 3 titles had an offense facilitated by a guy wearing a number 8.
When Kobe gets the ball the defense quickly collapses in him, the constant double or triple team coverage when he gets hot proves this from time to time, in such circumstance its not normal to see the structure of offense get out of hand. I dont view it as stagnating though especially if the role players will just be more efficient in knocking down their shots when the opportunity arrives.

Lamar's situation is different, he takes possession but you dont see the same amount of defensive pressure that Kobe attracts, thus he is freely to operate with a better spacing to either dish or create for his own self.
NO seriously, ever thought maybe because Kobe plays the 2 guard spot? Its not fair comparing two players with a very different role, has different lengths and plays a different position?. Kobe's role is defined by carrying the majority of the Lakers offense, not as its designated glass cleaner.
I seriously believe that you dont ever watch Laker games at all.
Sorry man, I think you're just lost.

__________________

a.y.h.

how about we just say that we need kobe and odom for every single game, otherwise, we'll be demolished

__________________

"There's Michael Jordan, and then there's Kobe Bryant. That's it; the list ends there".