Phil on the Jimmy/Bynum relationship - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

Wilt_The_Stilt · 06-19-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

You know, Jim is a guy that, you know, saw Andrew as a kid-- and thought Bynum was gonna be a great pick for our team. But in the process, I think you know, he's wanted Andrew to have a bigger and bigger role. And I think he's hired his coach to have Andrew have a bigger and bigger role. And that kinda disjointed the symmetry of what the Lakers were really about this last year. You know, Andrew is All-Star center. He was-- did a wonderful job. But, you know, it-- what happened was, it took Pau out of his game. And it took the team away from some of their game. So they changed the style dramatically.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.T-EBe7V8DEF

I think it is interesting that Phil suggests Brown was hired to promote Bynum. Is that part of the reason why they traded Odom as well?

As far as the rest of the team, there was certainly some differences offensively, although it should be noted we got just as far as we did with Phil last year.

e-monk · 06-19-2012, 04:58 PM

I thought the interesting and valid point was re Pau

**R-Star** · 06-19-2012, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-monk

I thought the interesting and valid point was re Pau

Yep. Expect some Bynum fans to come in and dismiss this though.

Wilt_The_Stilt · 06-19-2012, 05:30 PM

No doubt Pau struggled in his new role.

But even if we had kept Odom and the same big man rotation of the previous years, I don't think we would have gotten past OKC.

**R-Star** · 06-19-2012, 05:47 PM

Everyone says Pau is struggling. I'll say again to name a 3rd option player getting 17 and 10. There isn't one.

If this is now Bynum as the #2 and Pau as the #3, Pau has been an amazing #3.

LA68 · 06-19-2012, 06:27 PM

Odom is tailor made for the triangle as it hides all his flaws. They probably should have stay with the triangle. Its not that complex and Brown should be able to learn it. It puts Pau and Bynum in spots where they know what to do.

What was the purpose of Pau at top of the key ? or shooting 3's ??

**Laker Freak** · 06-19-2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-Star

Everyone says Pau is struggling. I'll say again to name a 3rd option player getting 17 and 10. There isn't one.

If this is now Bynum as the #2 and Pau as the #3, Pau has been an amazing #3.

Those numbers are from the regualr season where Pau was pretty solid.

The reason fans are calling for his head is because he averaged 13 and 10 on 43% from the field during the playoffs.

Wilt_The_Stilt · 06-19-2012, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-Star

Everyone says Pau is struggling. I'll say again to name a 3rd option player getting 17 and 10. There isn't one.

If this is now Bynum as the #2 and Pau as the #3, Pau has been an amazing #3.

It's not all about being the 2nd or 3rd option. Pau still took more shots per game than Bynum, it's just that Bynum also increased his shots and minutes, and that combined with Odom gone meant Pau was forced to the perimeter. Which is why he had Laker career lows in ppg, fg% and fta's.

So yes, he is still a good player, but it was a down year for him compared to the rest of his Laker career.

**R-Star** · 06-19-2012, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laker Freak

Those numbers are from the regualr season where Pau was pretty solid.

The reason fans are calling for his head is because he averaged 13 and 10 on 43% from the field during the playoffs.

13 and 10 for a third option is still big. Plus he was one of the best passing big men out there.

He deserves his blame. But a lot of guys on here having been talking about how great Bynum is at this, and how great Bynum is at that, and then whenever anything goes wrong its "****ing Gasol!".

Bynum is more of a problem to the Lakers than Gasol. I hope they trade Pau so it will become apparent.

**Luke** · 06-19-2012, 09:39 PM

Pau is a ****ing pussy. No player that makes 20 million dollars a year should get a pass for completely choking in the playoffs two years in a row. That's retarded. **** his regular season stat line, if he can't produce in the post season than he's useless. He choked in the finals in 2008, got his act together for two years and now has reverted back to his soft ways. Get him off of this team.

**King Sancho Fantastic** · 06-19-2012, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Jim Buss says Lakers fans shouldn't expect major moves - latimes.com

TV analyst Magic Johnson has called out Lakers honcho Jim Buss, while also wondering in a tweet why Kobe Bryant isn't doing the same every day.

In online excerpts from an interview Phil Jackson did with HBO, Jackson is asked why Jim Buss has "chosen to almost disassemble so much of what you've built?"

And now the Lakers don't have a starting point guard on their roster, with Ramon Sessions opting out of his contract.

"Bring it on," says Buss, "where do you want to start?"

What are the chances of the Lakers starting the season with Bryant, Andrew Bynum and Pau Gasol all in Lakers uniforms?

"Very good," says Buss.

So you don't agree with those who say the Lakers must turn Gasol into two or three players via a trade?

"No," he says. "I think changes are going to be made moving Pau lower to the basket. We can improve that way with a change in coaching strategy rather than a change in personnel."

No moves?

"We will try to sign Sessions when the rules allow beginning in July," he says. "And improve the bench."

No major free-agent signings, no blockbuster trades?

"No," he says.

Smelling salts, please, for Magic.

Magic was looking right into the ESPN camera when he told a national audience: "Jim Buss, brother, you have a job to do. I'm telling you right now because if you don't do it, you're going to hear from me."

Buss laughs. "He's got my phone number."

To hear Magic talk, and this has to make Dodgers players nervous, he's ready to blow up the Lakers because they failed to advance.

"He sounds like a TV analyst to me," says Buss. "That's his job to give opinions. I don't have a problem with that, and like a good Lakers fan he just wants us to get better. So do I."

Magic remains listed as a Lakers vice president, but the team says he's not being paid for the honorary title. They therefore aren't fined when he suggests they trade for Josh Smith or Dwight Howard.

"I would think Magic knows better than anyone," says Buss, "when the Lakers lose the last game of the season, everyone here is going to do whatever they can to make improvements."

In addition to his criticism of the Lakers, Magic let loose recently with a challenging tweet: "If I were Kobe, I'd be calling Jim Buss every day until the Lakers make some changes."

Buss is surprised. "I'm in constant contact with Kobe and we'll make sure Magic knows that," he says. "We have the draft coming up and we're trying to trade up into the first round. After the draft, Kobe and I will have a sitdown.

"He's already had lunch with Mitch [Kupchak], and from what I'm hearing Kobe is pretty satisfied with this team. If I heard differently from Kobe, it would put some doubt into what I was thinking.

"But I'm hearing he believes this team kept together can do something. And he's only got a short window of time remaining to win championships, so apparently he believes this group gives him the best chance to do so."

Magic, while saying Mike Brown's offense "drives him crazy," went even further during the playoffs, saying Brown would be fired if the Lakers did not defeat Denver in the first round.

"That made me uncomfortable," says Buss. "I don't think that was right. That put Coach Brown in a tough spot and I wish he hadn't done that."

But then Buss isn't surprised Brown has taken some heat.

"When you follow a Hall of Fame coach, I don't know where you can be praised if you don't win it all. If he lost in the Finals, he'd be criticized. But he does deserve time."

Buss says he would have been more critical of the players than the coach had they lost to Denver, and he said Brown was never in danger of losing his job.

"On the contrary," he says, "I think Brown did a fantastic job this year considering the shortened season, lack of practice time and following a Hall of Fame coach."

Not so fast, says Jackson in his HBO interview, some of it running online and not making the TV segment.

In the interview, Jackson makes it sound as if Buss' admiration for Bynum led to the demise of the Lakers.

"Gosh, I miss that guy," says Buss when Jackson's comments are relayed to him.

Jackson tells HBO that Buss "thought Bynum was gonna be a great pick for our team. But in the process, I think you know he wanted Andrew to have a bigger and bigger role. And I think he's hired his coach to have Andrew have a bigger and bigger role.

"And that kinda disjointed the symmetry of what the Lakers were really about last year. ... It took Pau out of his game. And it took the team away from some of their game."

I know it disjointed the symmetry of how Jackson might have liked it had he remained the Lakers' coach.

"Phil Jackson is the best coach the NBA has ever had," says Buss. "He did things his way and they worked beautifully for him. But we had to start over when Phil stepped down with a new coach and so things were going to be different.

"I'm not surprised he noticed," Buss adds, and I'm sure that will inspire a Jackson grin.

As for Bynum, he became the West's starting All-Star center, while also remaining a brat.

"I've bought into Phil's philosophy that he's growing up and he'll be fine," says Buss, but when will Bynum no longer be considered a kid?"

I expect Andrew to mature as a player and as a person this upcoming season," he says, and now add dreamer to the list of what everyone seems to think of Buss.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basket...20,full.column

So we are trying to move up into the 1st round.

**R-Star** · 06-19-2012, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke

Pau is a ****ing pussy. No player that makes 20 million dollars a year should get a pass for completely choking in the playoffs two years in a row. That's retarded. **** his regular season stat line, if he can't produce in the post season than he's useless. He choked in the finals in 2008, got his act together for two years and now has reverted back to his soft ways. Get him off of this team.

Bynum sure as hell didn't play much better these playoffs, but I guess he gets a pass right?

e-monk · 06-20-2012, 04:19 AM

Quote:

It’s been the running narrative for a few seasons now and I’m as guilty as the next person. When Andrew Bynum emerged, we rushed to classify Pau Gasol as a Power Forward and hailed his move to that spot as one that placed him in his “natural position”.

The logic was simple, really. Pau, and his willowy frame, would be better off not dealing with the constant pounding of playing Center. As a PF he’d no longer be exposed to the physical toll of being guarded by the big bruisers of the league and instead would play more against guys that weren’t as strong and not as tall. It would be better for his career; better for his production.

Well, I’m now of the mindset that those opinions miss the mark. Pau is not a Power Forward. Pau is a Center. Consider the following:

•Pau Gasol has posted a better PER at Center than at PF in all but one season since he’s come to the Lakers (this includes the 2007-08 season).
•Including that first half a season of his Laker career, Gasol has posted PER’s while playing C of 26.7, 26.3, 28.1, 24.3, and 21.7.
•As a PF (excluding that first half season, as he didn’t play any PF for that stretch), Gasol has posted PER’s of 21.0, 21.4, 25.4, and 20.1.
•As a post up player, Gasol has ranked in the top 26 players in the league in points per play in two of the past three seasons.
So, in essence, what we have is a player that in 4 of the past 5 years has posted better PER’s as a C while also being one of the best post up players in the league. Yet, the running notion is that he’s better off playing a different position.

It seems, what we’ve done is mistaken Pau’s versatility to play PF as an indicator that he’s better playing that position. We’ve overvalued his height advantage, overplayed his strength deficiency, and concluded that his best fit is one that explores the facets of his game that aren’t as strong (his mid-range shooting) as the ones he’s used to his advantage his entire career in both the NBA and internationally (his post up game). The reality is, though, what we’ve really done is not looked closely enough at the advantages of him playing C.

http://www.forumblueandgold.com/2012...y-more-center/

**King Sancho Fantastic** · 06-20-2012, 09:46 AM

Pau is a stretch center. Same as Duncan. Only difference is that Duncan has the strength to guard centers whereas Pau does not.

e-monk · 06-20-2012, 04:21 PM

unless you count the job he did on Dwight Howard in the finals

06-19-2012, 04:58 PM	#2 (permalink)
e-monk All-Star Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,687 Rep Power: 3274359	Re: Phil on the Jimmy/Bynum relationship I thought the interesting and valid point was re Pau

06-19-2012, 05:30 PM	#4 (permalink)
Wilt_The_Stilt Star Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 3,974 Rep Power: 1038152	Re: Phil on the Jimmy/Bynum relationship No doubt Pau struggled in his new role. But even if we had kept Odom and the same big man rotation of the previous years, I don't think we would have gotten past OKC. __________________ "We've learned Kobe Bryant has been asked to run the Federal Reserve. The feeling is, he can do more with three quarters than most of us can do with a whole dollar." --Peter Vescey, NY Post

06-19-2012, 05:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
R-Star BBB.net Archivist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The village of Clive, bro Age: 30 Posts: 37,978 Rep Power: 21474884	Re: Phil on the Jimmy/Bynum relationship Everyone says Pau is struggling. I'll say again to name a 3rd option player getting 17 and 10. There isn't one. If this is now Bynum as the #2 and Pau as the #3, Pau has been an amazing #3. __________________

06-19-2012, 06:27 PM	#6 (permalink)
LA68 Star Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,626 Rep Power: 899004	Re: Phil on the Jimmy/Bynum relationship Odom is tailor made for the triangle as it hides all his flaws. They probably should have stay with the triangle. Its not that complex and Brown should be able to learn it. It puts Pau and Bynum in spots where they know what to do. What was the purpose of Pau at top of the key ? or shooting 3's ??

06-19-2012, 09:39 PM	#10 (permalink)
Luke Go Dawgs Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 11,910 Rep Power: 4300832	Re: Phil on the Jimmy/Bynum relationship Pau is a **ing pussy. No player that makes 20 million dollars a year should get a pass for completely choking in the playoffs two years in a row. That's retarded. his regular season stat line, if he can't produce in the post season than he's useless. He choked in the finals in 2008, got his act together for two years and now has reverted back to his soft ways. Get him off of this team. __________________ Formerly VanillaPrice**

06-20-2012, 09:46 AM	#14 (permalink)
King Sancho Fantastic -LIFETIME MEMBER- Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Riverside, California Age: 29 Posts: 9,588 Rep Power: 7193604	Re: Phil on the Jimmy/Bynum relationship Pau is a stretch center. Same as Duncan. Only difference is that Duncan has the strength to guard centers whereas Pau does not. __________________ Rumble, young man, rumble...

06-20-2012, 04:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
e-monk All-Star Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,687 Rep Power: 3274359	Re: Phil on the Jimmy/Bynum relationship unless you count the job he did on Dwight Howard in the finals

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