2012 Baseball Season Discussion Thread

[roux2dope]

trade everyone but Braun.. **** this team

[Knicks4life]

Ichiro with the base hit.

[Knicks4life]

Ichiro with the steal.

[Cris]

Originally Posted by roux2dope

trade everyone but Braun.. **** this team

I'll trade you K-rod for Vernon Wells

[Standard]

So.. basically the Marlins are the Tigers farm system now?

[RR 823]

Originally Posted by FSH

Ah 2 years ago i would have been over the moon. But now it really depends on what we gave up...I dont really expect Ichiro to have a huge impact on what the Yankees already do

Yep, but with Gardner likely out for the season, the outfield needed another hand defensively down the stretch and the offense needed some speed on the basepaths. The Yankees didn't make this trade for Ichiro's bat. Though obviously a change-of-scenery rejuvenation would be sweet.

And they didn't give up much. Mitchell isn't a high-end prospect and neither is Farquhar, who was on waivers a couple of weeks or so ago. Good move overall.

[ChrisWoj]

So this post is concerning the Yankees/Ichiro deal. I'll just copy-paste from my texts with my Dad:

Me [6:22 AM]:
my thoughts on Ichiro to Yankees: Ichiro never walks. He chases TONS of pitches out of the zone, always has. For a season and a half he has had NOBODY but minor league level players behind him in Seattle. Why would any team give him anything in the zone? With the Yankees he will be seeing pitches in the strike zone for the first time in two years. He is going to be a massive steal for them.
[7:04 AM]:
He will easliy hit 20 to 25 HRs with that short porch in NY
Me [7:08 AM]:
Not a chance. Not even in a full season. But 10-15 definitely. Keep in mind that he's always been a pure line drive hitter. Huge huge amounts of backspin when he contacts the ball - creating sinking liners. His career high in homers is 15, which was the worst season of his prime. He's typically a 5-10 guy. Only hit double digits once since those 15 in 2005. 20-25 is unrealistic even with a short porch.
[7:10 AM]:
As he gets older he will pull the ball more
Me [7:11 AM]:
He's 38. He's already "older" for a big leaguer. The year he hit 15 homers his slugging percentage was one of the lowest of his career before last season. What makes him "ICHIRO" is the way he hits - low line drives, sprayed all over the field. Do you remember what the "Ichiro debate" was going into 2005?
[7:13 AM]:
Nope but he wasnt playin in NY
where there is a wind tunnel flowin out 2 right
Me [7:15 AM]:
Going into 2005 everyone argued "hey if he is good enough to hit .370, clearly if he tried he could hit 20+ homers!" - and in 2005 the Seattle coaches told him to do just that. He tried to pull it for power, and wound up hitting more homers than ever. But only batted barely .300. Overall had fewer extra base hits. And 60 fewer hits. When he plays like "ICHIRO" he hits .330+ and is a devastating weapon on the basepaths. When he plays like a power hitter he barely touches .300 and his overall effectiveness is greatly diminished.
Me [7:16 AM]:
Asking Ichiro to stop doing what he's great at and try to hit for power is like looking at Miguel Cabrera and saying "Okay, yeah you can hit 35+ homers and bat .320... but lets see you cut back to 15 homers and try to hit .400." He might hit .380, but his overall effectiveness would be lower.

Yes my Dad is loco.

[ChrisWoj]

Okay so concerning Infante/Sanchez for Turner...

Turner - he's only 21, but he's failed to impress me. His stuff just isn't "ace caliber." He's not another John Smoltz, he's not going to be an Andrew Miller (see: Miller/Maybin for Cabrera/Willis) - but he is no ace. His fastball velocity hasn't emerged, his control isn't there. He can't get his ERA under 3.00 in AAA. He could be a solid middle of the rotation pitcher, but I'm just superhappy we got what we need for this stretch run without dealing Castellanos (who will see the bigs in September, and if he shows anything will be on the playoff roster).

Infante - We're getting a guy hitting 100 points higher than what our current 2B are doing, and he can field better than any of those guys.

Sanchez - Did someone seriously say he's a guy that may not make our playoff rotation? I don't want to bother going back to check - but I will gladly SCOFF out loud at that. Seriously. This is a guy that K'd 202 in 196 last year. A legit 8+K/9 guy. His ERA has been in the 3's every year but his injury riddled 2007/2008 years. I wouldn't be surprised to see them throw a "Dontrelle deal" at the guy - signing him long term while his value is low ala Willis after we traded for him in 2007. Odds are it'll work out a hell of a lot better than that one did, his track record is still very nice. And he's ideal for our team - high K rates are great with the mediocre at its peak defense we have.

[hobojoe]

Originally Posted by ChrisWoj

Okay so concerning Infante/Sanchez for Turner...

Turner - he's only 21, but he's failed to impress me. His stuff just isn't "ace caliber." He's not another John Smoltz, he's not going to be an Andrew Miller (see: Miller/Maybin for Cabrera/Willis) - but he is no ace. His fastball velocity hasn't emerged, his control isn't there. He can't get his ERA under 3.00 in AAA. He could be a solid middle of the rotation pitcher, but I'm just superhappy we got what we need for this stretch run without dealing Castellanos (who will see the bigs in September, and if he shows anything will be on the playoff roster).

Infante - We're getting a guy hitting 100 points higher than what our current 2B are doing, and he can field better than any of those guys.

Sanchez - Did someone seriously say he's a guy that may not make our playoff rotation? I don't want to bother going back to check - but I will gladly SCOFF out loud at that. Seriously. This is a guy that K'd 202 in 196 last year. A legit 8+K/9 guy. His ERA has been in the 3's every year but his injury riddled 2007/2008 years. I wouldn't be surprised to see them throw a "Dontrelle deal" at the guy - signing him long term while his value is low ala Willis after we traded for him in 2007. Odds are it'll work out a hell of a lot better than that one did, his track record is still very nice. And he's ideal for our team - high K rates are great with the mediocre at its peak defense we have.

I hope you're wrong about Turner (obviously), but you're spot on with Sanchez. He has great stuff, always has. He can be unhittable at times (has a no hitter and 3 one hitters in his career, most of any active pitcher) and has been pretty durable since his major surgery. He's been the victim of terrible run support for most of his career with the Marlins, but he's a very good pitcher and a good guy.

[joek]

Ichiro will add speed and defense to the YANKEES. He can't hurt and just may add a little more dimension to the lineup.

[ChrisWoj]

Originally Posted by hobojoe

I hope you're wrong about Turner (obviously), but you're spot on with Sanchez. He has great stuff, always has. He can be unhittable at times (has a no hitter and 3 one hitters in his career, most of any active pitcher) and has been pretty durable since his major surgery. He's been the victim of terrible run support for most of his career with the Marlins, but he's a very good pitcher and a good guy.

The way I look at the two is this...

SANCHEZ: At his best he's a high number 2 starter. No Verlander/Kershaw/Cain... but the guy that could play their sidekick easily, at times outshining them but more often just being solid a step behind them. At his worst? Still a high level number 4/low level number 3 even in the American League.

TURNER: 21 years old, young enough that he could one day materialize into an ace, but the regression of his fastball and the fact that he can't hold AAA hitting under a 3.00 ERA proof that he is just as likely being a bust.

Turner has a chance of being a Verlander/Cain, if only because he's so young and pitchers can mature in the most unexpected ways... but also a chance of not being worth a spot in a top level rotation.

SANCHEZ: We already know Sanchez can't be Verlander or Cain... but he can be Scherzer/(this year's)Lincecum. And at worst he's a Vogelsong (mediocre, his numbers will sometimes be awesome, but usually regress to the mean). And he won't be worse than a Nova (will never pitch you out of a game, and win a hell of a lot if your offense provides for him).

I'll take Sanchez if my favorite team has a shot at the playoffs, and maybe a pennant.

[ATLien]

Chicago Cubs right-hander Ryan Dempster does not want to be traded to the Atlanta Braves, according to major-league sources.

At least not right now.

Dempster, as a player with 10 years of major-league service, the last five with the same team, has the right to block a trade to the Braves.

The pitcher instead wants to be sent to the Los Angeles Dodgers, who were unable to reach agreement with the Cubs on a suitable deal, sources said.

Ehh.. could be a blessing. Not ready to give up on 22-year old Delgado and Dempster's low BABIP could be that he's getting overrated.

[E.H. Munro]

I would say that I would like to see the Red Sox clean house but I think the players they need to get rid of are likely untradeable at this point. I wonder if the NCAA could give us a hand here and give the Crawford & Lackey contracts the Paterno treatment?

In any event Lester & Beckett need to move on.

[Diable]

Dempster doesn't have to play with the Braves obviously. It is his choice. I guess he can decide where he goes, but I doubt that the Cubs come out well. Hard for me to see how you can be 5-4 with a 2.14 ERA. I guess the Cubs must not be supporting him very much.

[hobojoe]

Originally Posted by E.H. Munro

I would say that I would like to see the Red Sox clean house but I think the players they need to get rid of are likely untradeable at this point. I wonder if the NCAA could give us a hand here and give the Crawford & Lackey contracts the Paterno treatment?

In any event Lester & Beckett need to move on.

It's pretty much been squashed now, but if there's any truth to the rumor that the Marlins considered trading away Hanley Ramirez and Heath Bell for Carl Crawford I'd officially lose all faith in my team.