Dakota

Yeah shadows, so how bout we call every other rookies that didn't put up good numbers last year busts. I was saying0 that you cannot write that Kwame is a bust down even if you said "as of yet" , on a rookie that was the friggin #1 overall pick. And shadows i'll make sure to call you again on the hypocrit thing once you express your feelings again.

Williams is not a cancer to the team.

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Shadows

Sounds good.

You dont understand one thing.

Every #1 pick is expected to be good in there first year. I dont care how young, how mature or how in-experianced if your a number #1 your more then just a future project. You come in to make your team better right off the bat and get better and better every year.

If a #1 pick is playing at the end of the bench for half a season the season was a BUST.

Kwame Brown is BUST so far no question. I have no idea why you are even arguing this. If Yao Ming plays like Kwame did last season he will be a major bust. If Lebron James plays like Kwame did he will be a bust in his first year ext.

Will Kwame get better?

Of course but he did not develop into the player as quickly as the Wiz expected him to. which qualifes him for a Bust

And dont say

"Oh but he was in high school these things take time'

Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry showed me alot more potential then Kwame this first season and trust me I saw alot of him.

w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y

JWill a cancer thats funny. Tell that to all the Sac fans and their management they drafted him #6 and him and CWebb automatically made them a playoff contender and even after the Bibby trade they still tied a franchise high in wins. JWest says he has some of the best talent in the league and your calling him cancer. Wait are you saying JWest is wrong?!

Shadows

That is my opinion

I allways hated JWILL since he came into the league. Maybe I'm just old school and I dont like his arrogance or the famboiant style he has. The term Cancer for this team maybe a little harsh but I really can not see him running this team.

Dont get me wrong he is a good player and could be an all-star with his potential but he irritates me to death with his costly turnovers, Flash Passes and terrible shot selection.

It boggles my mind how a guy with so much potential just cant control himself to know

-Which shot is good which is not
-Which pass to make which one not to
- When to run the floor when not to

And so on and so fourth.

There is nothing anyone can say to make me see him in a diffrent way I want to see an improvement on the court.

kingofkings

Eddie Jones. This guy can play. He is one of the best defensive players in the league. He is 6"7, long and spindly and averages more than 2 steals and 1 block per game and that is great for a shooting guard. He can score, from inside, or outside and is a good ballhandler and creator. He is also a great finisher on the break as well and very exciting.

With him on this team, he can start at the two and be in charge on the court of the Grizzlies defensive sets, which really at the moment is not good enough. The Grizzlies need one more defensive presence in the backcourt, along with Shane Battier, to get a hold of and contain hot hands.

The knock on Jones over the years is that he can never lead a team, like the Lakers, Hornets and Heat. But, he does not need to, on the Grizzlies. They have scorers with Gasol, Battier, Williams, etc. He can help guys out in practice, as he has a very good work ethic and the younger players can watch how he goes about it and learn from him.

Why would Miami want to do a deal?? Well, he is eating out part of their salary cap, and they also have no depth in the roster. They have no real guys that can come into the game and spell their starters and still be effective.

So how to get him:

Look, the Grizzlies have excess capacity in their big man department:

Wright, Gasol, Gooden, Massenburg, Trybanski, Swift

Point Guards - Williams, Knight, Watson

Obviously, if the Grizzlies can get Jones, their is no real need for Dickerson or Person,as Jones is going to get close to 40 minutes per game, but he can switch betweeen the 2 or the three.

I suggest a trade of Wright, Dickerson and Knight for Jones. Why Grizzlies do it, it reduces the log jam at the big man spot and the point guard spot. Remember that Williams and Watson will handle the majority of minutes, but Jones can also handle the ball and play point at times, allowing another shooter on the floor, which can help. It also frees more time up for Swift, Gooden and Trybanski to develop their games. It also allows Person to come off the bench, as we probably would have done behind Dickerson.Person alone is a more consistent shooter and better 3 point shooter than Dickerson alone.

Would the Heat do it?? Well, they have insurance in case Zo or Grant gets injured and they get a guy that can help and bang off the bench, in Wright. They also get a backup point guard in Knight, who is a better player than Anthony Carter, and they get a starting two guard in Dickerson. So their depth has increased by a great margin through this trade.

Do the Grizzlies give up to much?? Not really, I mean Jones is a better player than Dickerson. he is a better defensive player, which is the key to what this team really needs at this point in time. He is more experienced and is playoff tested. He has played in more clutch games and knows how to deal with pressure situations, which is not what Grizzlies players have had at the moment, as they lack experience.They signed Watson, to a multi year contract, so instead of floundering behind Williams and Knight, he can play a bit and justify his contract.

The only other issue here, is the lack of centre. Can Trybanski start, or should they go with Massenburg, until he develops, or maybe start Swift at the centre position?? But, once again, the excess capacity has been removed and the Grizzlies get a top notch player in return. Eddie Jones, will give the Grizzlies the defensive stopper in the backcourt, who can go up against the Kobe, Finley,Mobley, Wally Z, etc 4 times a year. Also, he still will give them close to 20 points per game, 5 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals, which is a great production from a wing player.

Centre - Trybanski - Massenburg
Power Forward - Gasol, Swift
Small Forward - Battier, Gooden
Shooting Guards - Jones, Person
Point Guards - Williams, Watson

You can see that they have not really lost anything depth wise. They are still 2 deep at every position on the floor. Remember Gasol, Swift, etc can fill in at centre from time to time as well.
Versatility, Battier and Jones are interchangeable at the 2 or three from time to time. So this is an improvement to the roster!!

w-h-i-t-e-b-o-y

That trade was actually discussed early in the summer but somehow it just dissipated. I would love to have EJ on the team....BUT the only problem is MikeD is a decent defensive player and so is Lorenzen. Although both were hurt last year I cant see how not having them in the lineup would burt us this year especially if we add EJ. Brevin is a decent backup but so is Earl and that would give him time to flourish in an actuall backup spot where he'll get about 15 min a game. But if MikeD is healthy and so is Lorenzen then maybe we whould keep them. MikeD makes approx 5 mil along with Lorenzen and Brevin. EJ makes about 8 I think so that would also clear a little cap room also. In turn that would also give Trybanski a chance to get more minutes. Dont forget we also have Archibald on the bench who is gonna get some minutes off the bench so even if we made the trade we would still be 3 deep at center(trybanski,TMass,Arch).
I'd do it(JWest likes EJ and only traded him becuase he was gonna get Kobe) Another BIG plus is EJ's work ethic we are young and if eveyone sees his ethic and he is at allstar status then maybe the team as a whole would work a little harder. I would love a backcourt of a matured JWill and Mr. Nice guy Eddie Jones. Frontcourt we have The senior Shane, the spaniard Pau and the Polish one Cezary. Damn that looks nice now and in a couple years. All are young and all will be real good in a year or 2(EJ is already real good).

Potatoe

C-MO,

Please refrain from using personal attacks in this forum. I believe calling someone a hypocrite is just as bad as calling them any other name. Attack the opinion not the poster!

Thanks

Dakota

yeah word on the hypocrit thing potatoe.....that's my fault , but it just bugs me that someone calls Kwame a bust. Kwame is only 19 and Shadows expects him to put up 20 and 10 his first year. Hey bud I don't think the Wiz would have picked him #1 overall if they did not expect him to put up big numbers. Just look at Olowakandi, jeepers no one thought he would be the second best center in the league at this point. But these things take time and I think they should be givin time.


word out

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Shadows

Kwame was a bust in his first year. Once again there is nothing anyone can say that will convinve me not to believe that. As I said he will get better with time but he did not progress as expected.

Back to the EJ topic. He would fit into this team but who would we have to give up to get him?

Great defender and clutch in the end of games. I would think at least Dickerson and Swift would have to go to get him. Is that too much?

bdachakeya

kingofkings, I've been making the same argument about Swift for the longest. I've been saying for a period of time now, that if the Grizzlies decided to get rid of him at this point it will be one of the biggest, prematurely, mistakes they could have ever made. I think for a guy who really just starting getting the minutes last season, did a heck of a job for a young player who's still learning the game. I think the problem with a lot people is that they are so quick to follow others opinions just because that person is a so-called master-mind. I'm not questioning West's ability to evaluate talent, but sometimes the guy can be wrong about some of his evauations. I know Swift seemed loss alot of times last season, but at the same time, he still displayed the same amount of talent, if not more, as any other big forward in the league after their first season. Man, I can see it the years to come if the Grizzlies were to trade Swift anytime soon, they'll be asking themselves, "What were we thinking?". I think it'll come back to haunt them the same way as when the Blazers, Raptors, and Suns let young talent get away as in Oneal, McGrady, and Kidd; they have turned out to major forces on their team and in this league. So I'll say, stick with Swift at least another season, which will actually be like his 2nd because of the lack of playing time in his 1st, then make the wise decision of whether or not he's the type of player we're looking for after given enough time.

kingofkings

The Grizzlies have got nothing to lose this year. Face it, they will probably not even come close to making the playoffs this year. So look to develop guys like Swift, Gasol, Gooden and even Williams to an extent even more. They are going to lose their lottery pick next year to the Pistons, if it is not #1, so get as much as you can out of your young guns and see if they will sink or swim.

Like I said, people are so quick to give up on guys like Swift, but he has tools that you cannot teach and coach. These tools are height, reach, length and athleticism. These are basic tools you need to start to learn fundamentals of being a solid post player, or an effective defensive presence, which all NBA teams crave.

So what is the point of trading him anyway, for a guy that is not as young as him, or does not have the upside that Swift has got. The Grizzlies have the time on their hands to develop him even more. Face it, Swift has struggled, but his numbers compare favourably, if not even better than Miles, as I have showed above. Miles gets traded for one of the best young point guards in the league, while Swift is ignored.

My advice to the Grizzlies, is to stay with the investment they put in Swift, when they took him with the 2nd pick in the 2000 draft. This will be the year, that he can answer all the questions about him. Maybe, the competition, for playing time will affect him in a positive way. Hopefully, he will be more aggressive in training camp and look to even challenge for a starting spot somewhere??

I just do not want him to go back and just give in and lose the minutes to Gooden, etc. He needs to be passionate, that he belongs in the NBA and fight for everything. He needs to think that his career is on the line and that he is the only one that can do something about it.

He has shown some flashes, but he has not put it all together yet. People have written him off and hopefully, this will light a fire in his belly. The Grizzlies have nothing to lose, but to play and develop the younger players. Once again, hype up Miles all you want, but Swift is not that far behind!!

John Boy

I agree with you totally. It seems that everybody jumped on Swift as being a loser this past year.

Everybody wants an all star on day one. Anything less is failure.

Swift actually got 12 points a game this past year as a 22 year old coming off the bench and getting limited minutes and for that, he was classed a failure.

Just look at Darius Miles. Everyone thinks he is a winner, a can't lose future all star.
Looking at his stats this past year, he only got 7.7 points per game.

To me, the biggest mistake the Grizzlies could make would be to trade Stromile away. He will come back to haunt them if he is traded,....... just like Mike Bibby.

kingofkings

I was having a think today and you know who just might be available?? Gary Payton. He is currently in negotiations with the Sonics that seem to be going downhill. Why he would be a good fit on the Grizzlies:

1) Playoff Experience - Has been to the Finals, has performed in the clutch and has led his team to big things.

2) 20 points per game scoring, best defensive point guard in the league. Can get his shot off over anybody. Is 6'4 and has about 3-4 years of quality game left in him. Never misses games through injury.

3)He would come to the Grizzlies for a change in scenery. He would want the challenge of building a franchise up and making them a contender. I believe that he is getting stale in Seattle and might want a change of scenery and a newer fresher start with younger enthusiastic players.

4) He is steadier than Jason Williams and is a better overall player in every facet of the game, no question. He has more experience and can get the better out of Gasol, Swift, Gooden, Battier, etc. He can hit clutch shots. he needs to be defended, which means double teams, which means more easy shots for Gasol, Battier, Swift, Gooden, Wright etc.

5) He likes to post up as a point guard. He likes to be active and is a true leader. He wants to take the players on his back and get them to follow his example. He will get other players to play defense in practise, by watching how he goes about his work.

6) He can lock up the point guards of the West. C'mon Jason Williams, guarding Nash, Brandon, Bibby, Francis, Miller,Marbury, etc 4 times a year, no way. Payton can lock up any guy and stop a hot hand. He can guard any point guard or two guard in the league and be effective, with his long arms and awareness.

7) Guys will respect him, a perennial All-Star every year and they will walk alot taller, knowing that they have Gary Payton around, playing big minutes and knowing that he will have a cool head in the clutch 4th quarters, taking the big shots, when needed. He is also a 45% field goal shooter.

So who to give up to get him. Look, he is available, no player is untradeable, given the right offer.So, I would look to give up Williams, Dickerson and maybe a future #1 pick. Look, the Grizzlies have enough younger guys on their team, with Gasol, Battier, Gooden, Swift and Dickerson. Now they need veteran leadership and guys that have performed in the clutch and in big games - playoff games. They do not need more younger players, they have their nucleas now. More younger players just sets back the learning process and the overall improvement of the Grizzlies backwards.

The Sonics will get a replacement point guard in Williams, who is by no means the worst point guard in the league. Battier can start at the two, replacing Dickerson, who can come off the bench at the Sonics and look to get hot. Gary Payton, immediatley makes the Grizzlies a contender. Imagine, Payton, Gasol, Battier and Wright. That is a great solid core of guys who can compete with anyone.

I know that I have said Eddie Jones, but reading reports recently, i think that the Sonics and Gary Payton have had enough of each other and the time to part ways has come about.

The Grizzlies will have two defensive stoppers in Payton and Battier taking the two most dangerous backcourt players of the opposition. That is great in itself,as backcourt scoring has killed the Grizzlies in recent years. They also lose nothing offensively, as Payton is a 20 point scorer and 9 assist player every night. They have a guy to stop the Francis, Marbury, Bibby, Nash, Brandon, Miller etc 4 times per year.

He has a killer instinct to be able to put the finishing touches on a team. The Grizzlies cannot do any wrong going after Payton. He can only help the team!!

Dakota

The only problem with Gary Payton if there even is a problem , is that he is getting a little old.Can someone tell me how old he is, because im not to sure. No doubt about it though that he can still play all star caliberball. Williams has not even hit his prime yet and I think that is why people are getting frustrated. Williams should be givin at least two more years. In Sacramento he went three straight years into the playoffs, so the kid knows how to win. He just has to be a little more of a class act and a leader.

Next year in the draft the Grizzlies do lose there pick if not #1, but they also get a pick from the Rockets so all is not lost.



word out

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EJlover