MemphisX

Ok I am a real frustated Grizz fan right now. I know Pau is young but his play this season has left a lot to be desired. I mean I don't mind him missing shots down the stretch but his soft play, whining, and posing I can do without. I mean why is it that his starting job is not threatened like Stro's. His collection of soft, fadeway jumpers down the stretch in San Antonio was pathetic.
I have to wonder: What would Stro's numbers be if he was given 36 minutes a game come hell or high water?

The Pau watch is now on IMHO. I think Hubie and Jerry can see that Pau is fool's gold and he will be dealt before they have to invest big money in him.

The only question is: who will we get for Pau?

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Cinco de Mayo

After tonight's performance against the Kings, I rescind my "Gasol Sucks" lash-out from the San Antonio game last night.

However...

I am tired of Pau catching the ball at the top of the key or in the post and instead of doing that quick spin-move that he is capable of doing, he stands motionless for ten seconds before either getting engulfed and turning it over, or settling on a cop-out fadeaway jumper that never goes in. When Pau does that spin-move around a defender, I think that Rasheed Wallace and Kevin Garnett may be the only PFs that can actually defend it. Tim Duncan got left flat-footed twice by the move, and Timmy's a very good defender. The problem is that Pau just never does it more than once or twice per game. He just needs some better post moves.

It's Pau's indecisiveness and seeming lack of confidence that really gets to me sometimes. And it's really grating when he does have these rock solid games like tonight against Sacramento or a few weeks ago when he blew up against the Cavs. He can do that, but it's so far and few between each one of those games, and he's much more likely to put up a 10 point 8 rebound job, especially when he starts slow.

That being said, if the opportunity to trade Gasol for a proven talent came along, I wouldn't be too hesitant. With the right mindset, Pau could be an incredible player in this league. However, his mindset now is to be more, as you said earlier in the year, MemX, Pau is "cut out more to be the sidekick than the hero." Memphis doesn't need anymore sidekicks -- they need some heroes. Stromile could be the perfect complimentary PF to a star SG or a star C. He's long, athletic, he can really pull down boards, and I feel that with the right playing time, he could put up numbers that may be slightly below Pau's, but make more of an impact in the game. Stro offers much better defense than Gasol brings to the table, evidenced by him almost holding Duncan's hand all the way through the lane to the basket in the Spurs game. The two are pretty even on the shot-blocking, although most of Pau's rejections come from the weakside. I believe that if we could trade Pau and a wingman for a proven superstar, and invest enough confidence in Stromile starting, then we wouldn't miss a beat. In fact, I think we'd be better.

That being said, I really don't know who we could get for a Pau/Posey combination that we wouldn't be giving up too much. Most of the really good players in the league make alot of money (as good players should), but Pau is only on his rookie deal. Ray Allen and Vlad Radmanovic is the first thing that strikes me (we'd have to add more salary, obviously), although we'll have to see how serious these ankle problems (which are happening more and more often) are with Ray.

How would that sound. Say we trade Pau/Posey/Outlaw/Humphrey (because I hate Humphrey) for Ray Allen and Vlad Radmanovic.

Williams/Watson/Bell
Allen/Wells/Jones
Miller/Battier
Swift/Radmanovic (I'd love to put him at the three, as well -- his true position)
Wright/Tsakalidis

IR: Theron Smith

Then pursue Erick Dampier in the offseason, provided that he opts out.

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Knicksbiggestfan

It's kinda fun in my opinion that you mention fools gold and ED in the same post. While Eric is a banger, there is no doubt of that. His offensive production is nil. Watch him some time, he is a decent defender and a good rebounder, but his aresenal of offensive moves leaves something to be desired.

He is also 29.


Pau is a great weakside shot blocker, he is incosistent at times but wow, what a finesse player. He also allows the grizz to spread the floor, he has great range, he is quick, runs the floor well and has decent hands. The last two attributes are key to the grizz as Jwill needs a forward with good hands that will run with him.

His confidence will come in time I am sure of that. Remember he has only been in the league 2-3 years!!! He has a great head, a decent work ethic, and is becoming more of a leader for this team. I intially wasn't sold on him either, but he is what he is and he is only going to get better. Players that have his amount of offensive moves ( especially in the post) are real rare. I would be disappointed if the Grizz traded him and moreso I think it would really really hurt the organization.


The irony of this whole diatribe is that the best thing in the world for Pau would be to play with a physical center who didn't need his touches and could bang in the paint well. Erick Dampier and Pau would be a perfect fit for each other. So would Greg Ostertag.

grizzhoops

I'm not sure that we would need Dampier so badly if Gasol was traded. Dampier isn't going to produce much on offense. Right now with Gasol, Dampier's toughness would offset Gasol's softness.

If we were to keep Stro, instead, we would probably be better off with a center that has more offense.

MemphisX

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to give Pau away. I appreciate that with all his faults he is still very, very good. Believe me the Grizz would need to get a legit top 10 player if they dealt Pau, in fact I know that is the only way the will deal Pau. Jerry West thinks Pau will be the 2nd best offensive player in the post(behind Duncan) by 25. So when I say 'deal Pau', I am talking about for a Kobe or T-Mac maybe a healthy Ray Allen but definitely not a freakin' Eric Dampier who we could get by probably offering Battier to Golden State.
Another telling comment about Pau last night, Greg Anthony thinks he will be the best Euro in the league very soon...that is saying a lot. In the perfect world we would get a slightly more mobile Jake Tsakalidis type to start and play 20-25 minutes and Pau and Stro could play the bulk of the rest of the minutes and Wright can get Bo Outlaw's minutes.
As good as it is right now we are still 2 seasons away from being a championship contender and maybe by that time Pau and Stro will naturally develop to the point we can start them side by side again and they can dominate like they did vs. Sacremento.
Maybe all we need as Grizzly fans is patience.....

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TyGuy

There is no way you get a kobe or t-mac type player out of Pau Gasol. I also dont think you could get a top 10 player out of Pau either, if you think hes worth that much.. then why trade him?

Cinco de Mayo

"Fool's Gold" was not mentioned at all in my post. Maybe you meant "thread."

Also, I suggested getting Erick Dampier in the offseason, no matter what -- Pau or no Pau -- and I'm not at all advocating getting Dampier for Pau because that's ridiculous. No one's saying that.

I'm saying that if the opportunity came along such as that Allen/Radmanovic thing, then I'd think pretty hard about it. Provided Ray is healthy.

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talula

Honestly, I'd just like to find a center who could be able to do all of the dirty work for Pau. I suppose that is why the only player that I actually covet is Ben Wallace. Gasol is who he is, although I think with his height and wingspan that he should be a little better on the defensive end, but I don't ever expect him to be great defensively just average. I'd like to keep Pau. We just need someone to offset his softness because he is so skilled offensively. I would still like to get Dampier, and there has been speculation that Jerry West would try to go after him again, but it looks like Golden State wants to keep him around.

piri

I really agree with you.

Continuing with the thread I'm a little bit tired of reading almost every body saying "how bad" is Pau and that he needs to improve so much. Yes, he need to improve, but...

I spent some time looking for stats and between the firsts 15 scorers in this season, there are only 5 with better scoring in their three season at the begining of his career than Pau. They are:
Vince Carter 24.6 ppg in 207 games
Tim Duncan 22.0 ppg in 206 games
Shaq 27.3 ppg in 241 games
AI 23.7 ppg in 204 games and
Paul Pierce 21.1 ppg in 203 games.
Pau is 18.1 ppg in 188 games.

Guys like kobe 13.8 ppg in 200 games
T Mac 11.0 ppg in 192 games
Peja 14.3 ppg in 197 games
KG 15.3 ppg in 239 games
J. O'neal 3.9 ppg in 141 games
Dirk Nowiztki 17.1 ppg in 211 games.

so

WHAT DO YOU WANT FOR THIS GUY? BE LIKE MJ?

Please, be a little bit serious.
Nobody in the wolrd could expect this stats for Pau whe he was drafted...

Knicksbiggestfan

Dunno where I got that either.... I made some weird comments last night..... where Iron Pyrite comes from I don't know.


Good to see we are in agreement Erick Dampier and Pau would be an insane frontcourt. Weakside shot blocking and Pau would just be an operator in the post.


I think your trade for Ray Allen is interesting but I don't think he is worth Gasol straight up. Something about Ray Allen, his will to win or take over or aggressiveness, it just isn't there he just isn't dominant.

I don't mean that he is lacking somethign to his statistical game . I know the knock on him has been his defense, he is actually a better defender than most people know.

Maybe it was him playing with Sam and Glenn, having to be shadowed by them, but something about Ray screams not a franchise player to me. Pau on the otherhand seems like a guy you stick with some complimentary role players and see where he takes you.


For trading purposes, I am more than ready to get rid of Bonzi Wells rather than give him a chance to improve ( or disrupt this awesome team chemistry that is forming). There are quite a few big men coming up in this draft. All that this team needs to draft the one in the mold of Dampier and they are set. I love the balance of this team, I don't think they need a star as much as they need complimentary players that need to learn how to compliment each other.


As for the stro problem, maybe give him some time at the 3, could he perform there or am I just being dellusional.

Chef

Pau doesn't realize how good could he be if he played harder...

He would an unstoppable offensive weapon, a very good rebounder and shotblocker, and a decent defender... All he has to do is be mentally thougher, stop whinning to the Refs and concentrate in the game...

It's easy to realize when Pau is not in the game (not concentrated)... He is not shooting well, neither FG or FT... I'm sure he could shoot around .600 FG% and .800 FT% almost every game

The main problem may be, that Gasol, since he came to the league, succeeded and more or less dominated, starting every game and playing 35+ mpg... He hasn't experienced being benched, or losing his starting spot because of his awful playing...

I say, bench Pau when he is whinning to the refs, bench him when he is not concentrated at the game, start Swift if his actitud is not good... That way I think he will learn (age should help too)

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AL9045

I think we're forgetting this is only his 3rd season in the NBA and he's 23.

Plenty of upside, I would not trade him because I think we need to build this team around players like him, young and with talent. We could throw in a few veteran prescences for leadership and I think we'd have a 6-8 seed in the West.

talula

Just look at Brad Miller's face. He knew he was about to get posterized.



Now that is the Pau that I want to see every night, using his quickness and taking it strong to the hoop. He needs himself a signature move. And he always needs to do the quick-spin before help arrives. The majority of big men in the league simply can't defend that.

Knicksbiggestfan

I mentioned it, my post was probably to long and most people quit after the first paragraph.

Anyway glad to see Pau is loved around here, and whoever made that point about Pau succeeding, well I think that's actually a good observation. Maybe he does have a sense of entitlement that prevents him from putting forth consistent effort.


If anyone can fix this, Hubie can.


Also talula, I have no idea how you go it, but that is an awesome pic.

c_dog

I get down on Pau probably more than any other grizz fans. i also have times where i wish we could trade him for another player in return because of his softness.

i think pau deserves more patience than that though. this team is winning, isn't it? so he cost us a couple games in the season, big deal! better now than the playoffs. everybody chokes once in a while at the end of games. everybody miss big shots from time to time especially early in their careers. heck, peja shot an airball that most likely would have won game 7 for the kings in the 2002 western conference finals. webber and christie weren't much better either. pau is young, and i believe that eventually he'll learn to hit those shots.

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