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kaniffmn · 08-13-2004, 09:38 AM

it was rumored in the start tribune that jason kidd named minnesota as a team he'd want to be traded to. the players i have heard involved could be cassell and wally, and maybe some fillers by both teams. i'm not totally convinced that this would be in the wolves best interests. i'm still not sure that i'd want to do this. especially the way cassell plays with kg. your thoughts on the possibility of bring kidd to minny?

SilentOneX · 08-13-2004, 10:18 AM

Where is the link?

drza44 · 08-13-2004, 01:31 PM

Where is the link?

Well, it was discussed in the Star Trib today by Hartman as a rumor that the club is denying (link to HoopsHype, scroll down)

http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

As to the deal itself, I have to agree that I wouldn't be enthused by it. I do believe that Kidd is the best PG in the NBA...but I also believe that Cassell might be the best PG in the NBA for our team. The offense we run is based off mid-range/distance jump shooting, and while Sam and Wally thrive at that I think J-Kidd would be weaker there. He also wouldn't be able to run the pick-and-roll with KG like Sam. He'd be the better defender by far, and the team would be incredibly fun to watch with him and KG distributing the rock, but I'm a bit loyal to Sam at this point.

By the way,this is my first post here. Just found out about this place a few days ago, and I look forward to having another place to talk Wolves hoops...

**sheefo13** · 08-13-2004, 02:44 PM

the fact that kidd is so inconsistent when it comes to scoring i dont want him here. We have had too many injuries and if hud is injured when we have a jason kidd here, we would have to rely on spree and kg to do all the scoring. But on the other side of things he sets players up so well and is a good defender. so I cant say no or yes.

SilentOneX · 08-13-2004, 04:31 PM

I don't want to see the team take away the league's best midrange shooter in Cassell. He can be so deadly at points where there's no defense in that area. They are already a better D team, KG, Hassell, Sprewell and Hoiberg as top 4 in defense. No need to bring in another good defense in Kidd.

el_gatoman · 08-13-2004, 05:02 PM

We should (or better: have to) keep Sam I Am. He fits into this team better than anyone else. - my opinion

**sheefo13** · 08-13-2004, 09:34 PM

the thing is is that he would make kevin garnett sooooo much better. He isnt going to demand shots. With an athletic wing in hassell he will make him better by throwing up alleys in transition. And his penetration will gove hoiberg MORE open threes, kg/kandi/madsen/googs/erv down low wide open, hudson and spree open looks, and will have to demand teams to cover him so everypne on the team is so much better. Include his defense. It is very tempting. All those things are things cassell usually doesnt do. just playing the devil's advecate

drza44 · 08-14-2004, 08:32 AM

I disagree that he'd make KG better. In the halfcourt game, KG works best in the pick and roll...which Sam is much better suited for than Kidd. Offensively, Kidd is better at running the break or finding the open man...but since KG is the one normally getting the board to start the break that would help out the wings (currently roles filled by Spree and Wally) than KG. Also, Kidd likes to have the ball in his hands, whereas our offense is run through the Ticket currently (and I actually prefer that it stay that way).

As for the other Wolves, again I'm not sure how much this helps the offense. Kid is better at breaking down a defense and creating open looks...but even open, Kidd, Spree and Hudson are going to be a lot more streaky than Sam and Wally...in fact I'd rather rely on Sam and Wally taking slightly contested jumpers (and hitting nearly half of them) than Kidd, Spree, and Hudson taking open shots at a 43% clip.

Now defensively, Kidd wins the matchup hands down. There's really no argument there. But I think Sam fits our offense better, and as good as the output and chemistry was among the big 3 I just don't think you break them up right now and start over...

**sheefo13** · 08-14-2004, 11:42 AM

on that pick and roll, kidd will find kg on the roll for an open bucket. Kidd does have a mid range game himself. The other thing is is that kidd can rebound the ball and thats how he starts all those fast breaks. He does steal the ball quite a bit when the other pg is brigging the ball up.. also that little spin on the loow post kg does when spree has the ball for a alley oop, what shaq always does, cassell cant make that pass, kidd can. thats why they make spree or hassell throw that alley oop pass.
Beleieve or not, spree is old and can barely dunk anymore. Wally can only dunk in transition when he has the ball the whole way. On the other hand hassell is a lot more athletic than people give him credit for. He would play the richard jefferson role in transistion.

the thing with cassell is that he is a great player on the offensive end. Cassell sometimes gets out of hand in big games and takes every shot that he can. It gets out of hand. I think with kidd on the business side, a lot more jerseys will be sold and more tickets would be sold because he is that exciting to watch.

please dont think i want this trade to happen. I am playing the devil's advecate. dont forget that.

drza44 · 08-14-2004, 12:26 PM

Oh, I have no problem at all with you playing Devil's Advocate. I actually kinda like it, because it keeps the discussion going and really makes me think about my points. And the more this debate continues, the more positive I am that I'd rather keep Cassell and Wally. Back to your points...

1) Kidd is not nearly the pick-and-roll guard that Cassell is. His mid-range game is incredibly inconsistent because his jump shot is incredibly inconsistent. Teams would not have to respect his shot nearly as much as they do Sam's which would mean fewer open shots for KG and everyone else out of this set. In fact, half court offense in general is an Achilles heel for Kidd. Its not a coincidence that everywhere he goes (NJ, Phoenix, Dallas) becomes a great fast break team that breaks down if the opponent refuses to let them run.

2) With this trade, our lineup becomes Kidd, Spree, Hassell, KG, and Kandi with Hudson, Hoiberg, Madsen, and Erv as the primary bench contributors. Outside of KG and POSSIBLY Hoiberg there is nobody in that top 9 with any kind of consistent offensive game. Kidd, Spree, and Hudson are streaky shooters that either score in buckets or not at all, and the other players are just not as offensively talented. With the offense that we run, I don't like that at all.

3) The break. I'm sure that with his rebounds and steals, as well as his general tendency to push the pace, Kidd could create more break opportunities. My point is that none of our centers are transition guys (Erv or Kandi run?

), and KG tends to be our last line of defense/best rebounding option so he very rarely runs himself. That leaves Kidd running with Hassell and Spree. Now don't get me wrong, that would be a great thing (I wish we did run more often), but I don't think a few extra fast break points from Spree and Hassell would make up for the diminishing we'd see in our half court offense.

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