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Old 05-14-2009, 03:16 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

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Originally Posted by PartisanRanger View Post
Many of my criticisms have already been voiced by others, but I'll voice some additional ones. The character of Kirk bored me to tears. We were stuck in the well-worn rut of "guy with chip on his shoulder challenges authority" with virtually no additional depth. Spock is the only character given any semblance of development.

So much is inexplicable or out of place. Kirk decides to join Star Fleet hours after adamantly dismissing it? Kirk randomly encounters an old Spock and Scottie? He must illustrate that Spock is emotionally unfit for duty because it's imperative that he captain? What?
You just admitted said the character had no semblance of development so how do you know his personality isn't normally fickle? He's an angsty teenager who wants nothing to do with the organization his father died serving but he decides to not be a loser farmboy. It's a pretty trivial thing to not suspend your disbelief over.

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The story with the time travel and alternative realities or whatever lost me pretty quickly. I still have very little idea of what went down.
I didn't like the introduction of old Spock either. But it's not like they set out to make a top 10 masterpiece film. Bad guy with a quest for vengeance goes through a time hole, kills people changing history, and Kirk grows up to become the hero he was destined to become and stops him.

I'm not a Star Trek fan and I hate the time travel paradox but I was still entertained by this movie. You just have to accept that things like fate and destiny exist in this alternative universe. Because this universe that star trek exists in is not our universe. It's another universe that we're getting a window into.


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Because it's fluff without substance. I enjoyed the spectacle, the adventure, and some of the humor, but this movie is ultimately pretty forgettable. I see Star Trek in the same way I see National Treasure. It can be fun to watch, but it's not great cinema.
God, I ****ing hate National Treasure more than anything. Sean Bean, after navigating through an underground archaeological structure to put the egyptians to shame is convinced by Jon Voight that this whole structure was just another dead end and that he should leave this place and go to a bar in downtown Boston because there's a lantern hanging here and there's also a lantern hanging outside the bar. Yes, the treasure of centuries worth of kings is not inside this mammoth underground tomb, it's in a dirty bar in downtown Boston. Leave here and let Nic Cage get the treasure while you get arrested for trespassing along with all the incriminating evidence the bumbling cops could ever need. Worst. Movie. EVER!
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:18 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

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This makes no sense. Are you seriously rating a minor character's death scene?
Minor characters death? Are you serious? Were you paying attention? It's the reason Kirk becomes captain due to "emotional distress" of spok (LOL again at someone permanenetly losing his job for temporary distress). I've literally never watched star trek (the movies or the shows) and I know that kirk is the main character.

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He saved 800 people. Given how shocked the captain at the beginning of the movie was that somebody would have the audacity to attack the federation, I'm sure there aren't too many situations of heroes saving 800 people.
He didn't so much as save 800 people as he needlessly killed himself. They were already getting away, and he didn't have to run into the ship to destroy or anything like in Independence Day or Armagedon. The ship was still there after he went kamikaze and he still could have had the same effect of fighting off the ship if he just kept firing.

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Only Kirk and Ohura know about the Romulan transmission that Ohura intercepted. Were you even paying attention?
What is it a 2 man language? Nobody else knows? They had a freaking interprator on board and they didn't know it. OK, but nobody else not even genius spok or anybody? Really? Same exact things are happening that happened before and yet someone who was literally being born knows it's the same thing, but no one else?

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I'm sure that if created a movie it would be way better than this one.
Yes, yes it would be.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:29 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

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Minor characters death? Are you serious? Were you paying attention? It's the reason Kirk becomes captain due to "emotional distress" of spok (LOL again at someone permanenetly losing his job for temporary distress). I've literally never watched star trek (the movies or the shows) and I know that kirk is the main character.
She was a minor character to viewers. She was a major character to Spock. It seems this distinction should be obvious. I don't know why you would challenge my use of the word minor there.

They couldn't even effectively transport Sooloo or Kirk to save them minutes earlier so why is it hard to believe that they couldn't beam Spock's mother?

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He didn't so much as save 800 people as he needlessly killed himself. They were already getting away, and he didn't have to run into the ship to destroy or anything like in Independence Day or Armagedon. The ship was still there after he went kamikaze and he still could have had the same effect of fighting off the ship if he just kept firing.
They showed a shot of him shooting down the missiles heading for escape vessels. In Kirk's father's own words, he had to stay behind so that the escape vessels could get away.

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What is it a 2 man language? Nobody else knows? They had a freaking interprator on board and they didn't know it. OK, but nobody else not even genius spok or anybody? Really? Same exact things are happening that happened before and yet someone who was literally being born knows it's the same thing, but no one else?
What? Seriously, what are you asking? Nothing you just wrote makes any sense. What would an interpretor interpret? There was nothing to interpret. Ohura intercepted a transmission from that area the previous day as part of her communications work back while she was on Earth. The federation mission to help stop earthquakes in Vulcan was a separate venture.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:42 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

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I will admit there were a couple of lame things about the movie

*SPOILERS*

- The chances of Kirk getting randomly kicked off the ship onto the exact planet that Spock was also kicked off (by Nero) are almost slim and none. Even more lame is that Kirk runs into the EXACT ICE CAVE THAT SPOCK IS CHILLING IN FOR NO APPARENT REASON. Who saves him by waving a torch at a gigantic beast that could smash through ice like it was nothing.
Maybe the creature has a weakness to fire? Not hard to believe. It's an ice planet. I doubt that any species evolved with an advantage to heat.

I hate time travel because of the time travel paradox but all this time travel and meeting in the cave can be explained by fate. Fate is the reason why Kirk became the man he should have become if Nero didn't go back in time. Fate led Kirk to Spock so that Spock could tell him the secrets that enable him to beat Nero. Yeah, it's not the strongest and most secular explanation but just accept it. Or don't, but it's not something that should piss you off. Especially with Terminator coming out next week and John Connor's whole existence being explained by fate and the story convoluted by the time travel paradox.

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- Nero doesn't kill Spock? He just lets him off on some frozen planet so he can watch from a distance? As if the ship didn't have a giant ****ing window for him to watch?
Wasn't Spock crying? Nero hurt him more than death ever could and he knows it. He wants him to live with pain.

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- There was no reason for Captain Pike to board Nero's ship. It did nothing but get him captured. It didn't buy them any time.
He used it as an excuse to launch a ship near the drill so that Kirk and Sooloo could get to the drill and destroy it. Nero would have shot down any other ships heading toward the drill.

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- The captain Kirk that died had no reason to stay on the ship. If auto-pilot was broken, how the hell was he able to set a course for it to collide with the ship? You mean to tell me he couldn't have just originally done that and then hopped on an evacuation ship?
They showed shots of missiles from Nero's ship getting shot down before they reached the escape vessels. He had to stay behind to intercept the missiles and that took a pilot. The autopilot was broken.
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:55 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

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Also, it allows for an entirely new timeline with new stories and events, rather than having to remake stories that we've already seen.
I've heard this from a couple of people, and I don't buy this excuse for a second. What, everything the "regular" Kirk did aboard the Enterprise was explored already in the original series? There's nothing more to talk about? Come on.
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Old 05-14-2009, 06:30 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

If you're going to reboot a series, why not you know, actually reboot the series. What's so hard to get about that?
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:18 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

93 heat has been puttin in some work in here i see. lol for a second there reading through this thread i thought i was gonna have to sit here and explain all these obvious things that people paying attention during the movie would know..
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Old 05-14-2009, 08:52 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

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Originally Posted by The '93 Heat View Post
You just admitted said the character had no semblance of development so how do you know his personality isn't normally fickle? He's an angsty teenager who wants nothing to do with the organization his father died serving but he decides to not be a loser farmboy. It's a pretty trivial thing to not suspend your disbelief over.
It's not a deal-breaker but it was very sloppy.


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God, I ****ing hate National Treasure more than anything. Sean Bean, after navigating through an underground archaeological structure to put the egyptians to shame is convinced by Jon Voight that this whole structure was just another dead end and that he should leave this place and go to a bar in downtown Boston because there's a lantern hanging here and there's also a lantern hanging outside the bar. Yes, the treasure of centuries worth of kings is not inside this mammoth underground tomb, it's in a dirty bar in downtown Boston. Leave here and let Nic Cage get the treasure while you get arrested for trespassing along with all the incriminating evidence the bumbling cops could ever need. Worst. Movie. EVER!
The ridiculousness is what makes National Treasure so much fun. Not a thing in either of the movies makes any sense. But hey! It's funny and has a hot German chick.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:20 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

You like National Treasure but not Star Trek?
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:50 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

Yikes.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:42 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

I don't get why people are questioning little things like Kirk being dropped off on the same planet as old Spock (which could easily be explained by old Spock being from the future) when the show is literally making up spacetime physics on the fly. It's like the people that question Lost for being too "far out there" from Season 3 onward while ignoring the implausibility of Season 1 and 2 where 40+ people survived a massive plan wreck on two different parts of an island and fought black smoke. At a certain point you have to buy into it or you're just not going to like scripted fiction.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:15 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

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Originally Posted by Nightmute View Post
If you're going to reboot a series, why not you know, actually reboot the series. What's so hard to get about that?
If it was just an artistic choice to use an alternate timeline, OK fine, although I think it was a lousy one. But it wasn't necessary to do it that way in order to have things to talk about in sequels. They could have done it straight and still had plenty of plot material leftover, so adding an alternate timeline doesn't really get you anything there. That's all I was saying.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:35 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

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I don't get why people are questioning little things like Kirk being dropped off on the same planet as old Spock (which could easily be explained by old Spock being from the future) when the show is literally making up spacetime physics on the fly. It's like the people that question Lost for being too "far out there" from Season 3 onward while ignoring the implausibility of Season 1 and 2 where 40+ people survived a massive plan wreck on two different parts of an island and fought black smoke. At a certain point you have to buy into it or you're just not going to like scripted fiction.
So why didn't Kirk just sprout wings and float off the ice planet? They're making up things on the fly anyway!

Because it would have been lame, that's why. The fact that we walk into a science fiction movie prepared to make a very specific set of concessions (spaceships exist, matter transport is possible, faster-than-light travel is possible, etc) doesn't mean we're prepared to concede anything.

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Old 05-15-2009, 08:45 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

i thought it made sense that he ended up on the same planet because it was closest to spocks planet. made sense for Nero to put him there for easy viewing of planet destruction. then later after the Enterprise is leaving Vulcan after it imploded Spock would most likely exile Kirk to the closest planet around. it actually makes perfect sense..
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:51 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Re: Star Trek: The New Movie

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Originally Posted by Hibachi! View Post
The chances of Kirk getting randomly kicked off the ship onto the exact planet that Spock was also kicked off (by Nero) are almost slim and none. Even more lame is that Kirk runs into the EXACT ICE CAVE THAT SPOCK IS CHILLING IN FOR NO APPARENT REASON.
It is most ridiculous coincidence, no doubt.

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Originally Posted by Hibachi! View Post
There was no reason for Captain Pike to board Nero's ship. It did nothing but get him captured. It didn't buy them any time.
I think part of the reason was to get those guys close enough for the sky dive to the platform.

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It's the reason Kirk becomes captain due to "emotional distress" of spok (LOL again at someone permanenetly losing his job for temporary distress).
The term was "Emotionally Compromised" meaning that his emotions would have affected his judgment during the conflict. He would have been putting his crew and the outcome of the conflict at risk because of how emotionally connected he was to the situation. He also lost a temporary job, he was just standing in for Pike. The rank has to be officially appointed later, as it was with Kirk.

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I've heard this from a couple of people, and I don't buy this excuse for a second. What, everything the "regular" Kirk did aboard the Enterprise was explored already in the original series? There's nothing more to talk about? Come on.
The point is to be able to free the series from the past story lines. This way they can work within the same story universe, without having to worry about conflicting too much with the established history. I don't think cramming more story in between the other stories from the series would have worked as well.
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