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**Dre** · 07-18-2011, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coatesvillain

This scene of them making the meth is so powerful. Wow.

Completely flipped the control Walt thought he had.

I don't know. I think that was just suspense for the viewer because in the end Gus knew Walt was right. He wasn't going to kiss his ass and admit it but he knows Walt is the master. That guy might have replicated the formula Gale used but he wasn't equipped to deal with variances, and in a big money business like that you need someone who is, who has that knowledge of chemistry like Walt.

Noone's going to have the knowledge Walt does unless he finds some other willing professor and at that point I think this would have jumped the shark.

Walt still has his leverage, even moreso now that Gus pretty much admitted Walt knew his **** and he was stuck with him.

That was a dope self contained moment but I don't know about the ramifications of it full time.

I think this season will be less about Walt looking over his shoulder as the main cook as much as it is the ramifications of the cops finding that book in Gale's house.

I think it's going to be a triangle about Gus feeling the pressure, Walt wanting to get out, and Jesse...I can't call him. I don't see him lasting the season.

Nimreitz · 07-19-2011, 01:11 AM

Damn. I knew Gus was a bad man, but he's a baaaaaad man. The dude who got slaughtered, yeah he was seen at the crime scene, he also failed to protect Gale which was a huge ****-up, and then obviously Gus sent a message to Walt and Jesse that couldn't have been delivered any other way.

My little guess at the future: I think Gus is going to get busted and Walt is going to buy the Dry Cleaners at a seized property auction. That would be a "holy ****" combined with an OMG laughter to end the season. But maybe it's too hokey. And it wouldn't surprise me if Gale had something in his possession like a note that said like "if I'm killed I manufactured meth for Gus Fring who is the kingpin of the Southwest..." I know I'd have something like that in a safe deposit box if I was working for violent criminals. But that might be too easy.

**Coatesvillain** · 07-19-2011, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dre

I don't know. I think that was just suspense for the viewer because in the end Gus knew Walt was right. He wasn't going to kiss his ass and admit it but he knows Walt is the master. That guy might have replicated the formula Gale used but he wasn't equipped to deal with variances, and in a big money business like that you need someone who is, who has that knowledge of chemistry like Walt.

Noone's going to have the knowledge Walt does unless he finds some other willing professor and at that point I think this would have jumped the shark.

Walt still has his leverage, even moreso now that Gus pretty much admitted Walt knew his **** and he was stuck with him.

That was a dope self contained moment but I don't know about the ramifications of it full time.

I think this season will be less about Walt looking over his shoulder as the main cook as much as it is the ramifications of the cops finding that book in Gale's house.

I think it's going to be a triangle about Gus feeling the pressure, Walt wanting to get out, and Jesse...I can't call him. I don't see him lasting the season.

I wrote that before Gus did anything. They went to commercial after Victor got the aluminum. That's what I was referring to at the time and what Gus did completely wiped out what I said.

**Coatesvillain** · 07-19-2011, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dre

Nah. He told Gus that the dude was seen at the scene of Gale's crime. And he was stupid enough to admit it. He knew what was coming. That dialogue was just as important as the camera zooming in on Gale with the actual box cutter. They needed you to pay attention to that.

That guy was a good little henchman but he's replaceable.

Mike is his ace, it would take something serious for Gus to part with him.

He was just a little surprised Gus got at him the way he did. I was myself. That was ill though

Gus is not to be played with.

I think Gus respects Jesse as much if not more than Walt at this point. The look in Jesse's eyes after Gus did what he did and Gus and him staring at each other was ill. It was like Gus saw it in Jesse and respected him. It was subtle but dope.

That Gale incident corrupted Jesse. Walt better watch out himself. Jesse had a lot of opportunities in the previous season to make power moves but fear got in the way. Now that that barrier is out of the question he's the real wildcard. You could tell he was feeling himself at the end when they were eating.

That book at the end of the episode opens up a myriad of possibilities though. This could've honestly been a good series finale if not for that. That's a can of worms that can go so many ways. I hope it's not some BS red herring though

I wonder how much the other characters will factor in. It would take something wild for them to be much but ancillary storylines.

See I side with UD40 that Mike was scared. Mike's first reaction to Gus was to pull his gun and aim it but fear caused him to drop it down to his side. Also his helping Walt and Jesse put Victor's body in the tub was symbolic of his being just as deep in the **** as they are.

Once you stop providing work that's up to the quality Gus commands he'll remove you. He values professionalism to get in, but once you're in it seems like he relies on quality. Not only did Victor not keep up his quality of work in cleaning up the scene, but he also had no way of creating the same quality of meth that Walt and Jesse provide ("follow the recipe" is actually a reference to a Jesse and Walt argument from the first season). So he was worthless. Mike now has to keep his high level up or else he's just as vulnerable to be replaced.

UD40 · 07-19-2011, 07:09 AM

^ Bingo.

With Gus, no one is safe (with the exception of maybe Walt and now Jesse.) Hell, just last season he had the Mexican government kill a king pin in Mexico. He's cold blooded, if the dude has the Mexican feds (not saying it'll come into play this season) and can kill people, in that fashion, and not flinch just shows he's unpredictable.

**Dre** · 07-19-2011, 08:50 AM

Naw. I see where you'd get that from but Mike is his ace, and he wouldn't have any reason to let Mike go. I don't think Gus would easily do it either. No matter how big of a sociopath you are you don't just discard your number 2. Victor was just a henchman who turned out to expose his idiocy.

If you're saying if he starts ****in up well sure, anyone's liable to to be let go because of failure, but the outcome was known to Mike, just the method was surprising and the gun raising was a reflex. I don't think he's vulnerable because Mike knows what he's doing. He's good with his gun and finding **** out, and that's all he needs to be.

I do think it was Gus showing he's not to be played with, but I don't think it's a specific threat or sign that Mike's in danger.

And I don't know if I buy the symbolism thing either. I mean he was obviously as deep if not deeper than them when he was about to kill Walt. And he's been running with Gus before Walt even showed up. I feel like it was just a dope way of showing that they had "made up", relatively speaking.

SheriffKilla · 07-19-2011, 12:40 PM

Gotta agree with Dre but I'm a Mike fanboy so I might be biased. Can't wait for Sunday.. I heard that the next 3 episodes will have less action and more just setting up what happens for the rest of the season.

UD40 · 07-19-2011, 12:41 PM

Fine by me. The way they came out in the first episode has me thinking that this will trump season 3. And season 3 was amazing.

**Aussie Baller** · 07-19-2011, 04:35 PM

It was the same box cutter gale used at the start of the episode

Mr. Hobbes · 07-19-2011, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dre

Naw. I see where you'd get that from but Mike is his ace, and he wouldn't have any reason to let Mike go. I don't think Gus would easily do it either. No matter how big of a sociopath you are you don't just discard your number 2. Victor was just a henchman who turned out to expose his idiocy.

I don't think Gus had a favorite henchman, and he was mad at both of them. If Mike was the one who ran to the scene, it would've been him. I'm thinking it was more for the failure to protect assets than being seen.

The only difference between Mike and Victor in terms of value is a contact with Saul. So maybe that's why Victor was less useful.

As for Jesse, Gus probably thinks he's a threat and must be killed. From what we know of the cautious Gus, he seems likely to remove what he can't control. Unless, in an great character-developing twist, Gus sees Jesse as Victor's replacement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coatesvillain

See I side with UD40 that Mike was scared. Mike's first reaction to Gus was to pull his gun and aim it but fear caused him to drop it down to his side. Also his helping Walt and Jesse put Victor's body in the tub was symbolic of his being just as deep in the **** as they are.

The fact that Mike didn't shoot Gus just shows how pragmatic he is as a character.

When Walt and Jesse was getting rid of the body they were doing Mike's job, who's supposed to be the cleaner. The way he just stared at them putting the body in the tub, it was like he was out of it. When he finally helped, it was kind of a weird team-building moment caused by a terrifying management technique. They're all 'on the same page'.

Nimreitz · 07-19-2011, 05:27 PM

The contact with Saul? Gus doesn't give a **** about Saul. Saul doesn't even know who Gus is and has likely fled the country never to return. Mike is way more valuable than Victor; the stuff Victor did was all regular henchman stuff; dropping off meth, picking up money, intimidating guys, whatever. In episode 12 of Season 3, Mike took out 4 Cartel guys who were holding their chemical supplier hostage, and he did it in a way that Agent 47 would have been proud of. He also managed to kill the Salamanca cousin that survived the firefight with Hank while he was in the hospital surrounded by DEA agents and police officers.

Mr. Hobbes · 07-19-2011, 06:58 PM

Gus doesn't need Saul when things are going well. If he trusts Mike, then he has use for Saul or Mike wouldn't be working for Saul at all. Gus isn't going to ignore the fact that one of his two most trusted guys only works part time for him.

I don't think it matters to Gus that Mike's a better killer than Victor. Hitmen are expendable, but not so much connections.

Nimreitz · 07-19-2011, 07:10 PM

Okay, again what use does he have for Saul? Gus doesn't use him, and as far as I can tell Mike only does stuff for Saul so it looks like he has a job when he files his income taxes. Mike is a family man and when his granddaughter or daughter ask him what he does for a living he can't say "I kill people for the drug kingpin of the Southwest". Mike will find another "legitimate" employer and that will be that.

And hitmen are not expendable at all, and particularly not for Gus right now. He's at war with the Cartel, so it's not like he can just bring some badasses up from Mexico to handle **** for him. Not only that, but he's extremely cautious, so he's probably not just going to recruit some newbies and ask them to kill for him. Finding someone capable (won't get caught) AND fiercely loyal is not easy, and even less so for Gus. Gus needs muscle and he needs the highest quality possible because there are going to be a flood of dudes across the border to take his territory away.

Mr. Hobbes · 07-19-2011, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimreitz

Okay, again what use does he have for Saul? Gus doesn't use him, and as far as I can tell Mike only does stuff for Saul so it looks like he has a job when he files his income taxes. Mike is a family man and when his granddaughter or daughter ask him what he does for a living he can't say "I kill people for the drug kingpin of the Southwest". Mike will find another "legitimate" employer and that will be that.

And hitmen are not expendable at all, and particularly not for Gus right now. He's at war with the Cartel, so it's not like he can just bring some badasses up from Mexico to handle **** for him. Not only that, but he's extremely cautious, so he's probably not just going to recruit some newbies and ask them to kill for him. Finding someone capable (won't get caught) AND fiercely loyal is not easy, and even less so for Gus. Gus needs muscle and he needs the highest quality possible because there are going to be a flood of dudes across the border to take his territory away.

You can't think of any uses Gus can have for a shady, hassle-free lawyer? Gus doesn't use Saul because none of Gus' guys need his services right now. Why burn a bridge when you don't have to.

Gus knows more than a few hitmen, which is how he got that Cartel boss killed. He knows enough dealers and killers to get dirty jobs done. Besides, he's got Mike for day to day stuff.

Nimreitz · 07-19-2011, 08:01 PM

The Cartel boss was killed by Federales who took token action in Mexico after the shootout with Hank. At most Gus bribed a couple guys to make sure El Hefe was killed, but even that is not certain since he went out to meet them with a gun. In fact, this point was explained at least twice to the audience during last season.

07-19-2011, 01:11 AM	#122 (permalink)
Nimreitz Legend Join Date: May 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 29 Posts: 16,247 Rep Power: 14813408	Re: Breaking Bad Damn. I knew Gus was a bad man, but he's a baaaaaad man. The dude who got slaughtered, yeah he was seen at the crime scene, he also failed to protect Gale which was a huge **-up, and then obviously Gus sent a message to Walt and Jesse that couldn't have been delivered any other way. My little guess at the future: I think Gus is going to get busted and Walt is going to buy the Dry Cleaners at a seized property auction. That would be a "holy **" combined with an OMG laughter to end the season. But maybe it's too hokey. And it wouldn't surprise me if Gale had something in his possession like a note that said like "if I'm killed I manufactured meth for Gus Fring who is the kingpin of the Southwest..." I know I'd have something like that in a safe deposit box if I was working for violent criminals. But that might be too easy.

07-19-2011, 07:09 AM	#125 (permalink)
UD40 Watch The Throne Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 18,723 Rep Power: 8119766	Re: Breaking Bad ^ Bingo. With Gus, no one is safe (with the exception of maybe Walt and now Jesse.) Hell, just last season he had the Mexican government kill a king pin in Mexico. He's cold blooded, if the dude has the Mexican feds (not saying it'll come into play this season) and can kill people, in that fashion, and not flinch just shows he's unpredictable. __________________ All Heat First Team Tim Hardaway Dwyane Wade LeBron James Chris Bosh Alonzo Mourning All Heat Second Team Mario Chalmers Eddie Jones Glen Rice Udonis Haslem Shaquille O'Neal

07-19-2011, 08:50 AM	#126 (permalink)
Dre do better Join Date: Jun 2003 Age: 25 Posts: 41,325 Rep Power: 21474887	Re: Breaking Bad Naw. I see where you'd get that from but Mike is his ace, and he wouldn't have any reason to let Mike go. I don't think Gus would easily do it either. No matter how big of a sociopath you are you don't just discard your number 2. Victor was just a henchman who turned out to expose his idiocy. If you're saying if he starts **in up well sure, anyone's liable to to be let go because of failure, but the outcome was known to Mike, just the method was surprising and the gun raising was a reflex. I don't think he's vulnerable because Mike knows what he's doing. He's good with his gun and finding ** out, and that's all he needs to be. I do think it was Gus showing he's not to be played with, but I don't think it's a specific threat or sign that Mike's in danger. And I don't know if I buy the symbolism thing either. I mean he was obviously as deep if not deeper than them when he was about to kill Walt. And he's been running with Gus before Walt even showed up. I feel like it was just a dope way of showing that they had "made up", relatively speaking.

07-19-2011, 12:40 PM	#127 (permalink)
SheriffKilla All-Star Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LA Age: 29 Posts: 7,139 Rep Power: 3162357	Re: Breaking Bad Gotta agree with Dre but I'm a Mike fanboy so I might be biased. Can't wait for Sunday.. I heard that the next 3 episodes will have less action and more just setting up what happens for the rest of the season. __________________ KVBL CHAMPIONS SEASON 1 BABY! Portland Trail Blazers Andris Biedrins Al Jefferson Charlie Villanueva Brandon Roy Ramon Sessions LaMarcus Aldridge Leandro Barbosa

07-19-2011, 12:41 PM	#128 (permalink)
UD40 Watch The Throne Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 18,723 Rep Power: 8119766	Re: Breaking Bad Fine by me. The way they came out in the first episode has me thinking that this will trump season 3. And season 3 was amazing. __________________ All Heat First Team Tim Hardaway Dwyane Wade LeBron James Chris Bosh Alonzo Mourning All Heat Second Team Mario Chalmers Eddie Jones Glen Rice Udonis Haslem Shaquille O'Neal

07-19-2011, 04:35 PM	#129 (permalink)
Aussie Baller There's a dog in my Perry Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 3,779 Rep Power: 12640802	Re: Breaking Bad It was the same box cutter gale used at the start of the episode __________________

07-19-2011, 05:27 PM	#131 (permalink)
Nimreitz Legend Join Date: May 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 29 Posts: 16,247 Rep Power: 14813408	Re: Breaking Bad The contact with Saul? Gus doesn't give a **** about Saul. Saul doesn't even know who Gus is and has likely fled the country never to return. Mike is way more valuable than Victor; the stuff Victor did was all regular henchman stuff; dropping off meth, picking up money, intimidating guys, whatever. In episode 12 of Season 3, Mike took out 4 Cartel guys who were holding their chemical supplier hostage, and he did it in a way that Agent 47 would have been proud of. He also managed to kill the Salamanca cousin that survived the firefight with Hank while he was in the hospital surrounded by DEA agents and police officers.

07-19-2011, 06:58 PM	#132 (permalink)
Mr. Hobbes Legend Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 19,469 Rep Power: 21474863	Re: Breaking Bad Gus doesn't need Saul when things are going well. If he trusts Mike, then he has use for Saul or Mike wouldn't be working for Saul at all. Gus isn't going to ignore the fact that one of his two most trusted guys only works part time for him. I don't think it matters to Gus that Mike's a better killer than Victor. Hitmen are expendable, but not so much connections. __________________ don't edit me bro

07-19-2011, 07:10 PM	#133 (permalink)
Nimreitz Legend Join Date: May 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 29 Posts: 16,247 Rep Power: 14813408	Re: Breaking Bad Okay, again what use does he have for Saul? Gus doesn't use him, and as far as I can tell Mike only does stuff for Saul so it looks like he has a job when he files his income taxes. Mike is a family man and when his granddaughter or daughter ask him what he does for a living he can't say "I kill people for the drug kingpin of the Southwest". Mike will find another "legitimate" employer and that will be that. And hitmen are not expendable at all, and particularly not for Gus right now. He's at war with the Cartel, so it's not like he can just bring some badasses up from Mexico to handle **** for him. Not only that, but he's extremely cautious, so he's probably not just going to recruit some newbies and ask them to kill for him. Finding someone capable (won't get caught) AND fiercely loyal is not easy, and even less so for Gus. Gus needs muscle and he needs the highest quality possible because there are going to be a flood of dudes across the border to take his territory away.

07-19-2011, 08:01 PM	#135 (permalink)
Nimreitz Legend Join Date: May 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Age: 29 Posts: 16,247 Rep Power: 14813408	Re: Breaking Bad The Cartel boss was killed by Federales who took token action in Mexico after the shootout with Hank. At most Gus bribed a couple guys to make sure El Hefe was killed, but even that is not certain since he went out to meet them with a gun. In fact, this point was explained at least twice to the audience during last season.

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