Top Players in NFL for 2012 - #26 Philip Rivers, #27 Ben Roethlisberger - Page 3 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

**Dissonance** · 07-28-2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dissonance

So far.

Philip Rivers 5
Ben Roethlisberger 4
Ed Reed 2
Victor Cruz 1

Seals it. Ben gets 27 though.

**Dornado** · 07-28-2012, 07:53 PM

How do you know that all of the guys who voted for Rivers wouldnt have voted for someone else in the next round edging Roethlisberger out again? I'm putting an asterisk next to Big Ben and Matthews...

**roux2dope** · 07-28-2012, 07:55 PM

bah rivers.. dude has never won anything and he took a big step back last year statistically

**Dissonance** · 07-28-2012, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dornado

How do you know that all of the guys who voted for Rivers wouldnt have voted for someone else in the next round edging Roethlisberger out again? I'm putting an asterisk next to Big Ben and Matthews...

I did it with Gronk and Allen too for those keeping at score.

It's a judgement call.

**Dornado** · 07-28-2012, 08:22 PM

I'll be sure to file my protest with the league office

**Coatesvillain** · 07-28-2012, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobojoe

The same Wes Welker that just caught 122 passes for 1569 yards without Moss or anyone close to that alongside him?

Cruz proved he can get his own and his production is not predicated on Hakeem Nicks or anyone else, he's just a damn good receiver. He played out wide and in the slot, he made people miss and he showed great hands, route running and explosiveness.

Was Wes Welker better than Randy Moss? No.

Everything that Victor Cruz runs is predicated off of what Hakeem Nicks does. It's a read and react system that dates back to the Run n Shoot. No one is saying he's a bum but Nicks is a better player.

hobojoe · 07-29-2012, 06:05 AM

Didn't say Welker was better than Moss, just saying Welker is fine without him. Cruz would be too. You said "everything" he gets his based off of Nicks, which simply isn't true or anywhere close to it. Just like Welker just had his best statistical season without Moss or anyone close to his level on the outside. You're the one who brought up the Welker/Moss comparison, not me. Just seems curious.

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**Coatesvillain** · 07-29-2012, 08:11 AM

It's how their system of routes work. His reads are dependent on what Hakeem Nicks does and how the safeties react.

Also by the time Wes Welker went to have his best season the people who attracted the most attention on the Patriots were Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski because the Patriots switched their system to focus on their tight ends and the mismatches they provide. So it's practically the same principle. Welker has never been the best target of Tom Brady's but he's reliable. That's not too different from Cruz right now.

hobojoe · 07-29-2012, 11:16 AM

I get that they do different things, but that in and of itself does not make Nicks better than Cruz.

For the record, the NFL Network list had Cruz 51 spots higher than Nicks.

**Coatesvillain** · 07-29-2012, 11:49 AM

Where did I say that them doing different things is what makes Nicks better?

Mrs. Thang · 07-29-2012, 01:27 PM

I don't think Cruz has better hands than Nicks. They both dropped a lot of balls last year.

I think Cruz is better at what he does than Nicks is at what he does, but what Nicks does is still more important. If you could clone one and cut one, you'd take two of Nicks over two of Cruz.

hobojoe · 07-29-2012, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coatesvillain

Where did I say that them doing different things is what makes Nicks better?

When you said his reads are dependent on what Nicks does and how the safties react. That's true, but I don't get how that makes Nicks better. Nicks is bigger, more athletic and better for a jump ball situation, but that's about it. Cruz is the better all around receiver.

**Coatesvillain** · 07-29-2012, 02:28 PM

I mean the fact that defense are doing more to account for Nicks is what tells me that. He rarely if ever sees single coverage.

hobojoe · 07-29-2012, 04:02 PM

Cruz did just fine playing on the outside opposite Nicks or when Nicks was out. There's a reason Cruz quickly developed into Eli Manning's favorite target.

**Coatesvillain** · 07-29-2012, 07:52 PM

Pretty sure Nicks played every game last year.

07-28-2012, 07:53 PM	#32 (permalink)
Dornado Community Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: WI Posts: 10,312 Rep Power: 10609190	How do you know that all of the guys who voted for Rivers wouldnt have voted for someone else in the next round edging Roethlisberger out again? I'm putting an asterisk next to Big Ben and Matthews... __________________

07-28-2012, 07:55 PM	#33 (permalink)
roux2dope I'm perfectly calm Dude Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Wauwatosa, WI Age: 31 Posts: 10,541 Rep Power: 6986292	Re: Top Players in NFL for 2012 - #26 Philip Rivers, #27 Ben Roethlisberger bah rivers.. dude has never won anything and he took a big step back last year statistically

07-28-2012, 08:22 PM	#35 (permalink)
Dornado Community Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: WI Posts: 10,312 Rep Power: 10609190	Re: Top Players in NFL for 2012 - #26 Philip Rivers, #27 Ben Roethlisberger I'll be sure to file my protest with the league office __________________

07-29-2012, 08:11 AM	#38 (permalink)
Coatesvillain Kwisatz Haderach Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: West Philly Age: 30 Posts: 31,775 Rep Power: 18867400	Re: Top Players in NFL for 2012 - #26 Philip Rivers, #27 Ben Roethlisberger It's how their system of routes work. His reads are dependent on what Hakeem Nicks does and how the safeties react. Also by the time Wes Welker went to have his best season the people who attracted the most attention on the Patriots were Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski because the Patriots switched their system to focus on their tight ends and the mismatches they provide. So it's practically the same principle. Welker has never been the best target of Tom Brady's but he's reliable. That's not too different from Cruz right now. __________________ They have muffin in common Breakfast at Timothy's 1 Featuring: Cocaine 80's, The Internet, J*Davey, The Antlers, Ford & Lopatin, Fol Chen, ::M∆De::In::Heights::, SBTRKT. Breakfast at Timothy's Archives Slow Motion Animatronics

07-29-2012, 11:16 AM	#39 (permalink)
hobojoe Legend Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 22,096 Rep Power: 7326019	Re: Top Players in NFL for 2012 - #26 Philip Rivers, #27 Ben Roethlisberger I get that they do different things, but that in and of itself does not make Nicks better than Cruz. For the record, the NFL Network list had Cruz 51 spots higher than Nicks.

07-29-2012, 06:05 AM	#37 (permalink)
hobojoe Legend Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 22,096 Rep Power: 7326019	Didn't say Welker was better than Moss, just saying Welker is fine without him. Cruz would be too. You said "everything" he gets his based off of Nicks, which simply isn't true or anywhere close to it. Just like Welker just had his best statistical season without Moss or anyone close to his level on the outside. You're the one who brought up the Welker/Moss comparison, not me. Just seems curious. Sent from my iPad using VS Free

07-29-2012, 11:49 AM	#40 (permalink)
Coatesvillain Kwisatz Haderach Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: West Philly Age: 30 Posts: 31,775 Rep Power: 18867400	Re: Top Players in NFL for 2012 - #26 Philip Rivers, #27 Ben Roethlisberger Where did I say that them doing different things is what makes Nicks better? __________________ They have muffin in common Breakfast at Timothy's 1 Featuring: Cocaine 80's, The Internet, J*Davey, The Antlers, Ford & Lopatin, Fol Chen, ::M∆De::In::Heights::, SBTRKT. Breakfast at Timothy's Archives Slow Motion Animatronics

07-29-2012, 01:27 PM	#41 (permalink)
Mrs. Thang Player Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 720 Rep Power: 2114851	Re: Top Players in NFL for 2012 - #26 Philip Rivers, #27 Ben Roethlisberger I don't think Cruz has better hands than Nicks. They both dropped a lot of balls last year. I think Cruz is better at what he does than Nicks is at what he does, but what Nicks does is still more important. If you could clone one and cut one, you'd take two of Nicks over two of Cruz.

07-29-2012, 02:28 PM	#43 (permalink)
Coatesvillain Kwisatz Haderach Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: West Philly Age: 30 Posts: 31,775 Rep Power: 18867400	Re: Top Players in NFL for 2012 - #26 Philip Rivers, #27 Ben Roethlisberger I mean the fact that defense are doing more to account for Nicks is what tells me that. He rarely if ever sees single coverage. __________________ They have muffin in common Breakfast at Timothy's 1 Featuring: Cocaine 80's, The Internet, J*Davey, The Antlers, Ford & Lopatin, Fol Chen, ::M∆De::In::Heights::, SBTRKT. Breakfast at Timothy's Archives Slow Motion Animatronics

07-29-2012, 04:02 PM	#44 (permalink)
hobojoe Legend Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 22,096 Rep Power: 7326019	Re: Top Players in NFL for 2012 - #26 Philip Rivers, #27 Ben Roethlisberger Cruz did just fine playing on the outside opposite Nicks or when Nicks was out. There's a reason Cruz quickly developed into Eli Manning's favorite target.

07-29-2012, 07:52 PM	#45 (permalink)
Coatesvillain Kwisatz Haderach Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: West Philly Age: 30 Posts: 31,775 Rep Power: 18867400	Re: Top Players in NFL for 2012 - #26 Philip Rivers, #27 Ben Roethlisberger Pretty sure Nicks played every game last year. __________________ They have muffin in common Breakfast at Timothy's 1 Featuring: Cocaine 80's, The Internet, J*Davey, The Antlers, Ford & Lopatin, Fol Chen, ::M∆De::In::Heights::, SBTRKT. Breakfast at Timothy's Archives Slow Motion Animatronics

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