Who is MVP? Peterson or Manning? - Page 2 - Basketball Forum : Professional and College Basketball Forums

**RollWithEm** · 12-27-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dornado

As much as I hate him, if people are going to bring up Matt Ryan then Aaron Rodgers has to be in the conversation.

Code:

Player           Comp% Yards YPA TD TOs QBR  Record
Matt Ryan        69.0  4481  7.9 31 16  77.6  13-2
Peyton Manning   68.1  4355  7.9 34 13  82.7  12-3
Aaron Rodgers    67.0  3930  7.7 35 12  72.6  11-4

He's not quite on their level statistically this season, but he has been coming up big as of late and his squad has been banged up.

**Prince** · 12-27-2012, 01:02 PM

Should add in Rodgers' rushing stats while we're at it too.

**Dornado** · 12-27-2012, 01:26 PM

Just counting "Turnovers" is kind of lame... fumbles attributed to the quarterback may or may not be the fault of the quarterback (though I guess the same is true of INTs, to a lesser extent).

**Diable** · 12-27-2012, 01:38 PM

Receivers can tip balls into the defenders hands all they want. The picks still belong to the QB's. Of course they get the Playboy models and the endorsement money too, so **** those guys.

**RollWithEm** · 12-27-2012, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dornado

Just counting "Turnovers" is kind of lame... fumbles attributed to the quarterback may or may not be the fault of the quarterback (though I guess the same is true of INTs, to a lesser extent).

I would argue that fumbles are more likely to be the QBs fault than are interceptions.

Nimreitz · 12-27-2012, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollWithEm

I would argue that fumbles are more likely to be the QBs fault than are interceptions.

No way. Most QB fumbles are from getting crushed on the blindside.

QBR isn't a great metric either as no one has any idea how the numbers are calculated. To wit:

Quote:

Further controversy erupted when the Total QBR system gave the Denver Broncos' Tim Tebow a higher rating than the Green Bay Packers' Aaron Rodgers in their respective Week 5 contests in 2011. Noting that Rodgers completed 26 of 39 passes for 396 yards and two touchdowns in a win over the Atlanta Falcons, while Tebow completed four of 10 passes for 79 yards and a touchdown, and six rushes for 38 yards and a touchdown, in a loss to the San Diego Chargers, Mike Florio of Profootballtalk.com wrote that he'll "continue to ignore ESPN’s Total QBR stat."

**RollWithEm** · 12-27-2012, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimreitz

No way. Most QB fumbles are from getting crushed on the blindside.

QBR isn't a great metric either, in my opinion.

That does not mean that most QB fumbles are because of bad blocking. If a QB holds on to the ball too long and fumbles it after a blindside hit, shouldn't he be penalized for not feeling the rush?

Also, which metric do you prefer better?

Nimreitz · 12-27-2012, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollWithEm

Also, which metric do you prefer better?

Uh... DVOA is probably the one I trust the most because football outsiders are transparent and have a good reputation.

**RollWithEm** · 12-27-2012, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimreitz

Uh... DVOA is probably the one I trust the most because football outsiders are transparent and have a good reputation.

Not a DYAR guy?

**Pimped Out** · 12-27-2012, 02:42 PM

JJ Watt is leading the league in sacks and tackles for loss and leading his team in tackles and PDs.

Nimreitz · 12-27-2012, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollWithEm

Not a DYAR guy?

No, per play is a better indicator than total.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pimped Out

JJ Watt is leading the league in sacks and tackles for loss and leading his team in tackles and PDs.

Wisconsin wins the 2011 National Championship if he stayed in school

Mr. Hobbes · 12-27-2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knick Killer

I am extremely bias and I think what Peyton Manning has done is incredible, but I think you have to give it to AD. He's coming off a major injury and he's carrying a team on his back that only won THREE games last year AND that's without Percy Harvin, to the playoffs when everyone predicted them to be at the bottom of the NFC North.

Nobody cares about injuries in MVP considerations. That's for comeback player.

Manning, because QBs impact the game more. Stats all lean to Peterson, but Denver is a bigger threat than Minnesota.

**Dornado** · 12-27-2012, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nimreitz

No way. Most QB fumbles are from getting crushed on the blindside.

QBR isn't a great metric either as no one has any idea how the numbers are calculated. To wit:

Not only do most actual QB fumbles come from getting blindsided, but a botched handoff gets credited as a fumble to the QB whether it was his fault or not... same with a botched snap.

BobStackhouse42 · 12-27-2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dornado

Not only do most actual QB fumbles come from getting blindsided, but a botched handoff gets credited as a fumble to the QB whether it was his fault or not... same with a botched snap.

As do interceptions that are clearly the receiver's fault either by running the wrong route or by tipping a catchable ball into a defensive player's hands.

**croco** · 12-28-2012, 03:56 AM

Quarterbacks are much more valuable than running backs by nature. If Peterson is included in the conversation, then you may as well vote for Duane Brown, JJ Watt, Von Miller, Richard Sherman or others who are considered the best at their position. The fact that that Peterson came back from injury - like Manning - is irrelevant for the actual impact on the field. It's a great story and it is remarkable what he has done this season, but at the end of the day teams win if they can throw the ball efficiently and contain the pass defensively. Aaron Rodgers is more valuable than Peterson, as are Brady, Manning and several other quarterbacks.

View Poll Results: Who is Most Valuable Player of 2012 season?
Peyton Manning	4	44.44%
Adrian Peterson	4	44.44%
Other (write in)	1	11.11%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

12-27-2012, 01:02 PM	#17 (permalink)
Prince Formerly Known as Quite Frankly Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wisconsin Age: 22 Posts: 11,803 Rep Power: 4606109	Re: Who is MVP? Peterson or Manning? Should add in Rodgers' rushing stats while we're at it too. __________________ 2032 KVBL Champions: Milwaukee Bucks (Prince) Lineup - PG D'Angelo McMillian \| SG Eddy Sweet \| SF Cameron Clothier \| PF Mario Rogic \| C Greg Hope \| 6th man C Andre Wright Finals MVP: Greg Hope 2033 KVBL Champions: Milwaukee Bucks (Prince) Lineup - PG D'Angelo McMillian \| SG Joseph McDaniels \| SF Cameron Clothier \| PF Mario Rogic \| C Greg Hope \| 6th man C Peter Acres Finals MVP: Greg Hope Fear the Deer Minnesota Timberwolves

12-27-2012, 01:26 PM	#18 (permalink)
Dornado Community Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: WI Posts: 10,331 Rep Power: 10609191	Re: Who is MVP? Peterson or Manning? Just counting "Turnovers" is kind of lame... fumbles attributed to the quarterback may or may not be the fault of the quarterback (though I guess the same is true of INTs, to a lesser extent). __________________

12-27-2012, 01:38 PM	#19 (permalink)
Diable Limehouse Blues Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 22,167 Rep Power: 14650805	Re: Who is MVP? Peterson or Manning? Receivers can tip balls into the defenders hands all they want. The picks still belong to the QB's. Of course they get the Playboy models and the endorsement money too, so **** those guys. __________________

12-27-2012, 02:42 PM	#25 (permalink)
Pimped Out Not Just Dumb, Aggie Dumb Join Date: May 2005 Location: God's Waiting Room Posts: 18,773 Rep Power: 21474863	Re: Who is MVP? Peterson or Manning? JJ Watt is leading the league in sacks and tackles for loss and leading his team in tackles and PDs. __________________ I travelled the world and the seven seas I AM WATCHING YOU THROUGH A CAMERA

12-28-2012, 03:56 AM	#30 (permalink)
croco -LIFETIME MEMBER- Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Germany Age: 25 Posts: 19,351 Rep Power: 20019075	Re: Who is MVP? Peterson or Manning? Quarterbacks are much more valuable than running backs by nature. If Peterson is included in the conversation, then you may as well vote for Duane Brown, JJ Watt, Von Miller, Richard Sherman or others who are considered the best at their position. The fact that that Peterson came back from injury - like Manning - is irrelevant for the actual impact on the field. It's a great story and it is remarkable what he has done this season, but at the end of the day teams win if they can throw the ball efficiently and contain the pass defensively. Aaron Rodgers is more valuable than Peterson, as are Brady, Manning and several other quarterbacks.

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