[Skeet Skeet Skita]

Originally Posted by Spriggan

So I suppose what is logical is that a player with the skillset and talent to play 2 or more positions should relegate himself to playing one because that's what he's officially classified as.

Those are rare players. Not many can play both SG and SF and dominate equally at both. Kobe, McGrady, LeBron... who else? Only big, talented, quick guards with ball-handling ability can accomplish that.

Does Dirk Nowitzki play like a power forward?

Look...

My point is that there is no difference between SG and SF, hence it is unnecessary to discern between these positions. In most setplays of modern basketball, the setplay starts off with a 1-2-2 set-up of the players. Have a look at this, so you know what I am talking about:



This set, like most others in modern basketball, does not discern between SG and SF, hence, like I said, render a categorisation between SG and SF unnecessary.

You could say the same for PF and Center.

And it's not like this is all coming from my fantasy, but from my experience from playing in quite professional leagues here in Europe. And I also might want to add, that European coaches emphasise tactics and setplays way more than US coaches. So I quite know what I am talking about.

Just to sum it up. In modern basketball the positions are Playmaker, Wing and Post. That's it.

And to come to your question about Nowitzki. He plays like a Post. Only because he shoots 3 pointers, does not mean he can't be a post player. It's not like Dallas runs plays that has Nowitzki running through screens and make him a spot up shooter. Most of his 3 pointers come from pick and pops and transition situations and he does not even shoot the ball every time he gets after he sets a pick, he also takes it to the basket. But Nowitzki mostly gets the ball on the low or high block and either shoots his deadly fadeaway, faces up and uses pump fakes to get his man off his feet or uses his speed to enter the paint and attack the basket, that's why he gets a fair amount of free throws every game.

[Skeet Skeet Skita]

Originally Posted by WTChan

SG and SF are two different positions.

Read my post above...

[matt!]

Originally Posted by Hbwoy

Rudy Gay reminds me eerily of a certain player. His handles arent that great, he is inconsistent with his shooting, off the wall athleticism but the big thing about this kid is talent. His potential is off the wall. If I were him I'd stay one more year in college and hone those skills. Right now I seem him as a SF, his handles wont let him cut it as a SG although he has the footspeed to masquerade as one

Sounds like Marvin Williams minus some bulk.

I actually just saw all of his stats for the first time: he dissapears against good competition it seems.

UConn has played four teams of similar talent this year: Arizona, Gonzaga, Arkansas, and Marquette.

His averages for those games? 13 ppg (thanks to 26 vs. Ark) / 1.7 apg / 4.5 rpg / 1.25 SPG/ .25 BPG / 4.25 TO / 41% FG / 8% 3FG%

Seems pretty special...

[matt!]

Originally Posted by Skeet Skeet Skita

Look...

My point is that there is no difference between SG and SF, hence it is unnecessary to discern between these positions. In most setplays of modern basketball, the setplay starts off with a 1-2-2 set-up of the players. Have a look at this, so you know what I am talking about:

This set, like most others in modern basketball, does not discern between SG and SF, hence, like I said, render a categorisation between SG and SF unnecessary.

You could say the same for PF and Center.

And it's not like this is all coming from my fantasy, but from my experience from playing in quite professional leagues here in Europe. And I also might want to add, that European coaches emphasise tactics and setplays way more than US coaches. So I quite know what I am talking about.

Just to sum it up. In modern basketball the positions are Playmaker, Wing and Post. That's it.

And to come to your question about Nowitzki. He plays like a Post. Only because he shoots 3 pointers, does not mean he can't be a post player. It's not like Dallas runs plays that has Nowitzki running through screens and make him a spot up shooter. Most of his 3 pointers come from pick and pops and transition situations and he does not even shoot the ball every time he gets after he sets a pick, he also takes it to the basket. But Nowitzki mostly gets the ball on the low or high block and either shoots his deadly fadeaway, faces up and uses pump fakes to get his man off his feet or uses his speed to enter the paint and attack the basket, that's why he gets a fair amount of free throws every game.

You're just ignoring everyone else's point. Nobody is saying that SG and SF are totally different positions and nobody could ever think of overlapping them, but in a lot of systems there are some subtle differences that separate the positions.

They are not mutually exclusive, but they are not the exact same "wing position" that you describe.

For instance, in HS I played the 3 because my handles weren't good enough to bring the ball up and run a play, and my outside shot wasn't as good as a 2 guard, but I rebounded better than a 2 guard and generally played a more inside-outside game. Our 2 guard was responsible for running off screens in our offense and getting open catch-and-shoot opportunities. My responsibility was catching baseline passes for inside moves or putting me on the move to drive.

So every offense doesn't necessarily use the two positions exactly the same. And I played basketball in America, so I quite know what I'm talking about.

[HB]

Originally Posted by matt!

Sounds like Marvin Williams minus some bulk.

I actually just saw all of his stats for the first time: he dissapears against good competition it seems.

UConn has played four teams of similar talent this year: Arizona, Gonzaga, Arkansas, and Marquette.

His averages for those games? 13 ppg (thanks to 26 vs. Ark) / 1.7 apg / 4.5 rpg / 1.25 SPG/ .25 BPG / 4.25 TO / 41% FG / 8% 3FG%

Seems pretty special...

His biggest problem is no killer instinct not his talent. His talent is unquestionable, you just have to watch a few games of his to see what I mean

[ralaw]

Originally Posted by Hbwoy

His biggest problem is no killer instinct not his talent. His talent is unquestionable, you just have to watch a few games of his to see what I mean

I agree, not that he has to have Adam Morrison's intensity, but he seems to have a nonchalant attitude when he is on the court. I think he is a great player, but I think he suffers from having the "talent of a superstar and the mentality of a role player" which typically means the player won't fullfill the potential people have of them.

[Skeet Skeet Skita]

Originally Posted by matt!

You're just ignoring everyone else's point. Nobody is saying that SG and SF are totally different positions and nobody could ever think of overlapping them, but in a lot of systems there are some subtle differences that separate the positions.

They are not mutually exclusive, but they are not the exact same "wing position" that you describe.

For instance, in HS I played the 3 because my handles weren't good enough to bring the ball up and run a play, and my outside shot wasn't as good as a 2 guard, but I rebounded better than a 2 guard and generally played a more inside-outside game. Our 2 guard was responsible for running off screens in our offense and getting open catch-and-shoot opportunities. My responsibility was catching baseline passes for inside moves or putting me on the move to drive.

So every offense doesn't necessarily use the two positions exactly the same. And I played basketball in America, so I quite know what I'm talking about.

You make a mistake a lot of people make - take an example and generalise it.

I'm not even saying that you are wrong with what you say, but kinda missed what I've been trying to explain.

The scenario that you have illuminated basically stated that players have to play according to their abilities, which is completely right, because it is nonsensical to let a player shoot who can't. That's why coaches run setplays according to the abilities of the players.

Now what you've described falls IMO in the field of activity of a wing player. The field of activity of a wing player cannot be pinned down to one or two things. It's like when a post player shoots 3's, that does not automatically disqualify him as a post player, because shooting from the outside may eventually be a part of the activity field of a post player. That is also the reason, why a lot of European players are as fundamentally sound as they are.

[HB]

Originally Posted by ralaw

I agree, not that he has to have Adam Morrison's intensity, but he seems to have a nonchalant attitude when he is on the court. I think he is a great player, but I think he suffers from having the "talent of a superstar and the mentality of a role player" which typically means the player won't fullfill the potential people have of them.

If he gets the right amount of criticism it could just be enough to light a fire in him. Say he ends up in a place like New York (God forbid the knicks get him) the media would never let him be a role player not with that type of talent. He will get chewed up if he thinks he is going in for an easy pass

[HB]

Originally Posted by Skeet Skeet Skita

You make a mistake a lot of people make - take an example and generalise it.

I'm not even saying that you are wrong with what you say, but kinda missed what I've been trying to explain.

The scenario that you have illuminated basically stated that players have to play according to their abilities, which is completely right, because it is nonsensical to let a player shoot who can't. That's why coaches run setplays according to the abilities of the players.

Now what you've described falls IMO in the field of activity of a wing player. The field of activity of a wing player cannot be pinned down to one or two things. It's like when a post player shoots 3's, that does not automatically disqualify him as a post player, because shooting from the outside may eventually be a part of the activity field of a post player. That is also the reason, why a lot of European players are as fundamentally sound as they are.

Not trying to cause anything here, I agree with most of your points except the bolded part. Are you saying European post players are fundamentally sound because they are willing to step out of the whats considered the norm.

[Chan]

Originally Posted by Skeet Skeet Skita

You make a mistake a lot of people make - take an example and generalise it.

I'm not even saying that you are wrong with what you say, but kinda missed what I've been trying to explain.

The scenario that you have illuminated basically stated that players have to play according to their abilities, which is completely right, because it is nonsensical to let a player shoot who can't. That's why coaches run setplays according to the abilities of the players.

Now what you've described falls IMO in the field of activity of a wing player. The field of activity of a wing player cannot be pinned down to one or two things. It's like wh