[hobojoe]

Originally posted by SHOX!
You disrespect too much the raptors !!!

.................................................. ............

the raps is betta than . celtics,bucks,hawks,sixers,knicks,magic,bulls,wiza rds.. etc

look at the raptors bench .....

Moiso - Marshall - Lamond Murray - Mo-pete - Alvin Williams ....

by far...the best bench in the east.. n the raps startin lineup is pretty decent too...

you cant disrespect the raps.....

The Raptors had Vince healthy all of last season and still didn't get into the playoffs. How can you expect them to suddenly make it now that they have Rafael Araujo and Rafer Alston? Alston shot the worst percentage of any player in the league to take 600 or more shots last season, he's extremely inefficient. Araujo is Chris Kaman at best this season. What makes the Raptors that good? Take into account that they won the second most games in the NBA decided by 3 points or less last season and factor in that those games could easily go the other way this season, why are the Raptors going to be so good? Don't tell me about the players they have, because they had a good majority of them last season and didn't go anywhere. Explain how they all of a sudden got so much better. Vince was healthy last season, who's to say he will be this season?

[rocketsthathavespurs]

true but nj is just asking for a pick and that division is up for grabs and vc (if he stays) will be better and bosh will be better so ya never no

[4-For-Snapper]

Originally posted by ArtestFan!
Western Conference:

1. Spurs
2. Timberwolves
3. Kings
4. Nuggets
5. Lakers
6. Jazz
7. Grizzlies
8. Suns
----------------
9. Mavericks
10. Rockets
11. Warriors
12. Hornets
13. Blazers
14. Clippers
15. Sonics

Warriors ahead of Portland? What? I'll admit, POR may not make the Playoffs, but ranking GS ahead of them is lunacy.

[Drewbs]

Dallas just got better after the Terry, Henderson/Walker trade. They are no longer logjammed at PF meaning they can move Dirk back to the 4 making him more effective. They are still pretty good offensively with Dirk, Fin, and Stackhouse, but since Howard and Daniels will be geting more playing time, and the Calvin Booth coming to Dallas means that they will be better defensively as well. Devin Harris is also a good defender. Jason Terry is pretty good off the pick and roll which Dallas loves to run and is known as a shoot first PG, but can actually pass pretty well. Atl just never had any shooters. I think they just moved up in the rankings.

[farhan007]

Originally posted by HeinzGuderian!

I dont understand peoples new fascination with the Magic... They have one of the weaker front lines in the L (Howard will need time, and IF hill is able to return who knows what he will be able to contribute) and while I have to love Mobley/Francis, those guys are not winners. Not meant as any sort of flame, I just dont really understand. Alot of people seem high on them, did I miss something? Cato and Battie dont really strike fear into the hearts of opponents big men.

ummm... in the WEST these guys won 45 games Without YAO!!! Why dont people ever stick that to their brain. 45 wins will get you top 6 seed atleast in the east. Plus the duo played in the west, and their record in the east was amazing. So they could even go for 50 wins.

[John]

Originally posted by hobojoe!


The Raptors had Vince healthy all of last season and still didn't get into the playoffs. How can you expect them to suddenly make it now that they have Rafael Araujo and Rafer Alston? Alston shot the worst percentage of any player in the league to take 600 or more shots last season, he's extremely inefficient. Araujo is Chris Kaman at best this season. What makes the Raptors that good? Take into account that they won the second most games in the NBA decided by 3 points or less last season and factor in that those games could easily go the other way this season, why are the Raptors going to be so good? Don't tell me about the players they have, because they had a good majority of them last season and didn't go anywhere. Explain how they all of a sudden got so much better. Vince was healthy last season, who's to say he will be this season?

rap fans, I will destroy this kid right now. I see this poster posting left and right and thinks he has good ball knowledge. But yet, just another "surface" fan who watches Ball on TV.

1) Raps were playing a developing product. The Chris Bosh. Chris Bosh was hurting the team all year long along with Marshall. Chris Bosh is going to be a good player in this league. But he could have been Darko if he was playing for Detriot. He was not ready to play. Yes, the flashy shot blocking, and the "jump way high" rebounds are nice. But where were the intangibles? The tough set pick? The boxing out? I would take legiitimate role players in Scott Williams, the Tony Battie. the Kevin Cato, the Antonio Davis before Bosh for LAST YEAR play! Chris Bosh was below average interms of doing what a big man is supposed to do.

2) Everyone screamed at Tyone Lue as the worst starting point guard for last year. OMG, watch Milt Palaicmo(I cant even say his last name)!!! The guy is the 3rd point guard at best. The guy cant hit a shot, isnt quick enough to break down the defense, and isnt a shooter at all. Is the new signing pg help the Raps? Let's look at it this way, we only need an NBA servicable legitimately back up point guard!

3) Alvin Williams is going to stay healthy for us next year. One of the problems we had last year was no one could guard opposing quick point guards. Through the years, it was Alvin Williams doing the dirty work. He was injured last year, I would expect him to get back to where he was 2-3 years ago defensively. And again, Raps with Vince Carter didnt need any "shut down" people defensive players, but at the "contain" level will do it.

4) Marshall will move back to the bench, our new centre is going to be the Big Jake when he was the Suns starting centre as a rookie. I dont expect him to grab many rebounds, and play heavy minutes. But play like a big man, takes up space, draw offensive fouls if you have to(lol).

5) Vince Carter wasnt heating up himself until the all-star break. He was getting used to play his game after the injuries. He knew better as when he could take a mid range jumper and when he could slash to the hole with smarts. Carter will be a 25/5/5 type of player if he knees are stronger than last year.

Raps will make the playoff as the 5th seed if Bosh becomes an service NBA player defensively, and the NEW backup PG is a true back up PG in the NBA

[SamTheMan67]

Yeah if carter doesn't hurt himself dancing at nelly concerts that is

[Vermillion]

I don't know agree with the choices of Denver and Milwaukee in the playoffs.

I'd like to see if KMart can hold his own against the forwards of the West before I start ranking them a top-5 West team. Camby's a good defensive center, but his lack of height coupled with KMart's would give the Nuggets one of the most undersized frontcourts in the league, which is suicidal especially in the West. Yes, Melo is a talented player, but I just don't see them making it over deeper, better teams like San Antonio, Minnesota, Sacramento, Houston, Memphis, Utah, even Dallas, Phoenix, and Portland. They admittedly have a decent team, but their problem is that they are in the West, which makes it harder to grab a playoff spot.

Sad to say, even though Milwaukee is one of my top-5 teams, I just don't see them making the playoffs, much less being a top 6 team. Even if they have one of the more decent backcourt starters in Redd and Ford (whose performance is doubtful because of injury), that doesn't really help their terrible, terrible lack of a good and big frontcourt, especially if they decide to play Desmond Mason in the SF spot and the brittle Van Horn at the PF position. They've also lost valued subs in Skinner and Jones. I try to be optimistic about this team, but I realistically can't see them making the playoffs unless they can fully utilize a running game.

That said, all bias aside, I see Philadelphia and Orlando as playoff teams, with the former as one of the top teams in their division. With young, talented players in Dalembert, Green, Iguodala, and Korver playing alongside GRobinson, Thomas, and the still great Iverson, I see the Sixers making noise in the relatively weak East. Though I question the ability of the frontcourt of Orlando, I see that their depth is one one of the best in the league. Francis should get back into his 20-6-6 groove with Mobley backing him up both offensively and defensively, Cato should be one of the more polished big men in the East, and I like what I've seen from Howard and Nelson. If Grant Hill can get back to his old form, then Orlando should have a good forward rotation with Turkoglu providing some decent help.

That said:

EAST

1. Detroit
2. Indiana
3. Miami
4. Philadelphia
5. New York
6. Orlando
7. Chicago
8. Cleveland

9. Boston
10. Toronto
11. Washington
12. New Jersey
13. Milwaukee
14. Atlanta
15. Charlotte

WEST

1. Minnesota
2. San Antonio
3. Sacramento
4. Memphis
5. Houston
6. Dallas
7. Utah
8. Phoenix/ Portland

9. Phoenix/ Portland
10. Denver
11. LA Lakers
12. LA Clippers
13. Golden State
14. Seattle
15. New Orleans

[hobojoe]

Originally posted by John!


rap fans, I will destroy this kid right now. I see this poster posting left and right and thinks he has good ball knowledge. But yet, just another "surface" fan who watches Ball on TV.

I only wish I had your knowledge John.

1) Raps were playing a developing product. The Chris Bosh. Chris Bosh was hurting the team all year long along with Marshall. Chris Bosh is going to be a good player in this league. But he could have been Darko if he was playing for Detriot. He was not ready to play. Yes, the flashy shot blocking, and the "jump way high" rebounds are nice. But where were the intangibles? The tough set pick? The boxing out? I would take legiitimate role players in Scott Williams, the Tony Battie. the Kevin Cato, the Antonio Davis before Bosh for LAST YEAR play! Chris Bosh was below average interms of doing what a big man is supposed to do.

Well for someone who you just said was worse than Scott Williams last season, what makes you think he'll be so good this season? I think Bosh was a good player and will only get better, but I'll go along with your post and say he wasn't as good as Scott Williams last season. If that's true, exactly how good is he going to be this year?

2) Everyone screamed at Tyone Lue as the worst starting point guard for last year. OMG, watch Milt Palaicmo(I cant even say his last name)!!! The guy is the 3rd point guard at best. The guy cant hit a shot, isnt quick enough to break down the defense, and isnt a shooter at all. Is the new signing pg help the Raps? Let's look at it this way, we only need an NBA servicable legitimately back up point guard!

The Raptors point guard spot is still not very good with Alston, Alvin Williams and Pilacio.

3) Alvin Williams is going to stay healthy for us next year. One of the problems we had last year was no one could guard opposing quick point guards. Through the years, it was Alvin Williams doing the dirty work. He was injured last year, I would expect him to get back to where he was 2-3 years ago defensively. And again, Raps with Vince Carter didnt need any "shut down" people defensive players, but at the "contain" level will do it.

Who says Williams will be healthy this season? He's aging extremely fast, and is no longer an effective starter in the league, and just an average backup.

4) Marshall will move back to the bench, our new centre is going to be the Big Jake when he was the Suns starting centre as a rookie. I dont expect him to grab many rebounds, and play heavy minutes. But play like a big man, takes up space, draw offensive fouls if you have to(lol).

Araujo really isn't that good at all, and won't do much for the Raptors but take up space, like you said.

5) Vince Carter wasnt heating up himself until the all-star break. He was getting used to play his game after the injuries. He knew better as when he could take a mid range jumper and when he could slash to the hole with smarts. Carter will be a 25/5/5 type of player if he knees are stronger than last year.

Who says last season wasn't just a fluke and he won't get hurt this year? Or that he won't revert to his old ways of only taking jumpers like he did at the beginning of last season?

Raps will make the playoff as the 5th seed if Bosh becomes an service NBA player defensively, and the NEW backup PG is a true back up PG in the NBA

I doubt it, I really don't think there's a very good chance at all that the Raptors are a 5th seed, I don't think they're a playoff team. They've only improved minimally, and I don't think they can count on Carter staying healthy, or Marshall not having as good of a season as he did last year, Williams declining even more, Mo-Pete disrupting the team since he doesn't want to be there. There are just too many things that could go wrong with Toronto, and not enough potential to be very good to make up for it.

[John]

The poster above lost my interest to argue with him. The guy is taking the loser way out, USING words to aruge with me. Didnt input any meaningful basketball kn